Who can blame us

[Keremy]

On vacation in Florida and enjoying looking at all the different styles of women?s clothing. Wife is not accepting of men wearing women?s clothing but how can she blame us for wanting to wear women?s clothes?

There is a conference going on in the motel and all the men are wearing shorts or pants, tennis shoes or dress shoes, and shirts are button up, long sleeve pull over, polo, or t-shirts the only thing different is what is written on them.

This is not the case with women. None of them have anything that even looks similar to each other. Line everyone in dresses up and you see a wide range of lengths, strapless, spaghetti straps, thicker straps, sleeves short and long. Different fabrics, different colors with different patterns. Same is true for those wearing pants or shorts.

This morning I spoke with a woman on the beach I thought she was wearing a long light weight cotton sundress. I was right about it being a sundress but it was made out of a light weight breathable satin material that freely flowed around her and once again I thought ?Who can blame us?? Why is it to some people inconceivable that men would like to wear the wonderful things women wear. Just my thoughts for the day.

Hope you have a chance to wear something wonderful today!

[Kitty S]

You have a point there. In nature the male is usually the colorful one, needing to attract a mate. It's funny to me that most of the things GG's hate is what I love. Bra's, Heels, Nylons and wearing makeup.

[Natalie5004]

I have brought that subject up to my wife many times. She tells me that I can look good too. Dress like Johnny Rose in Shitt's Creek. I prefer to dress like Moira.

[luuv2dress]

I have definitely had this thought myself. Woman have so many choices and always look comfortable while I'm in hot shorts and shirt during summer while they catch all the breeze........

[Maid_Marion]

Last summer I wore a brightly colored Lily Pulitzer skirt to a potluck party.
A GG confided to me that she wished her diet were effective enough that she could wear her's!

I am back to wearing heels all the time.
I did the laundry this morning wearing 2inch wedges.
I have no trouble getting up and down the stairs to the basement. I can hold the basket and hold the handrail at the same time!

I can wear size 2P right off the rack! The sleeves are just the right length. 28" is just a little long, perfect for wearing heels!
There are plenty of high waisted styles for those of us with a thin waist that falls two inches above their belly button.
It isn't hard for me to find an exact fit.

With mens clothes XS is a little big and the colors are often hideous if you can find anything in the stores.
Sort of a women's size small but with different proportions.
It is like someone is mocking you for being small.
The sleeves are way too long. I'd fold them back as it was too much work for me to shorten them with a sewing machine.

[docrobbysherry]

I must side with your SO on this one. Dressers r not typical men!
As a typical guy until my 50's, I never even thot about wearing women's things!

And, since about 95% men think that way? We're r the odd ones, not them!

[alwayshave]

Keremy, I have thought this my entire life. I have a dozen suits for work, but they all look the same.

[Genifer Teal]

On vacation in Florida and enjoying looking at all the different styles of women?s clothing. Wife is not accepting of men wearing women?s clothing but how can she blame us for wanting to wear women?s clothes?

We are not "most men". Most men are not giving clothes a second thought and are thinking even less about women's clothes. What might seem normal to us isn't always to everyone.

[NancySue]

My sense is most men, deep down enjoy being comfortable including clothes. Yeah, during working years, I wore suits, ties, socks, etc. but after 5:00 it was so nice to change into comfortable clothes. My dear wife never understood how I could be comfortable wearing underwires, hose, heels, etc. I just smile. Now retired, I?m comfortable daily.

[JesseVF]

100% - I find it actually depressing sometimes wearing jeans and t shirts every day. Always jealous of the variety women can wear - basically anything!

[Traci H]

The variety on the other side of the aisle is so fascinating. I want to try them all. Yea, that cotton tee shirt and jeans gets old. I can?t tell you how many times in summer I asked my wife what she is wearing, trying to decide between jeans or shorts. Then I look at her and she is wearing capris. I don?t have that option. Not one my wife will endorse for sure. Those are strictly in a woman?s domain around here. That is just one tiny example. Don?t get me started on necklines for women?s tops!!!

[Bea_]

A century ago, it was unlawful for women to wear pants in many states and municipalities. Many of those laws didn't come off the books until mid-twentieth century. I am not suggesting it, but I can only imagine the blowback if women were suddenly denied the right to wear pants. If pants and pants-like apparel were not available to women, the greatest part of virtually all women's wardrobes would be illegal. And much of what women wear on the street on a daily basis would have been scandalous before the seventies.

I personally appreciate the freedom that women have gained over the last century. I appreciate the variety that's available to them.

[ReineD]

Who can blame us??

It's because most people don't have a fixation for clothing like crossdressers do. Not even women! Most of us choose clothes for comfort and convention - for example, I might not wear torn jeans to a nice restaurant or a dressy dress to a pizza parlor. We don't choose clothes because we cannot resist the styles, colors, or patterns like you do.

Within the confines of what's relatively conventional for my lifestyle, I choose clothes based on the quality of the fabric (Will it wash well? Will it last longer than a dozen washes?) or how they fit on my body. Are the shirt, pants, or skirt long enough? Is there too much spandex in the fabric? Or will it shrink? I don't care how thick the straps are or what color it is, or whether the sleeves are short or three quarters, or whether the neckline is crew neck or square, or whether the top is patterned or plain. I just want it to fit well, last a while, and be comfortable.

Yea, that cotton tee shirt and jeans gets old.

You do realize that's what most of us wear most of the time? Maybe not at a resort or at work, but certainly at home or while we're running errands.

[Traci H]

You do realize that's what most of us wear most of the time? Maybe not at a resort or at work, but certainly at home or while we're running errands.

Reine, I do realize that most dress as you state when off duty so to speak. Comfort is king for the most part. Still within those parameters there are more choices. My wife gets upset if I wear a magenta shirt! No such limits on women it seems. It?s the other 10% or so that is the kicker. We have a fairly fancy wedding coming up. My wife is shopping for all kinds of dresses. The choices seem endless. Me, I have a choice of a dark suit, or a darker suit or a black suit. I sure would like me some color. Oh yea, I can get a colored tie. Whoppee! Hell I was recently buying a new bike and spotted one in a color liked and ventured towards it. ?Oh, that?s a women?s bike? the sales guy states. Yeah, I should have known. The guys version would be black or gray. Oh, maybe a red stripe if I?m lucky. Just the way it is, but not stopping me from indulging in the prettier side of life if I can help it.

[Miel GG]

Maybe your wife doesn't like magenta or maybe she is a conservative one. About you, you need to shop elsewhere, in a bigger city or on line. There are now plenty of choice for fancy wedding guests suits, they comes in all shades of color. They are also patterned ones, classic or not at all (do you like flowers for example ? ) ! The same with bikes, with the younger generation of riders being less gender binary than the elders. You don't need to shop in the female department for variety, you simply want to because you are a CDer.

[Taylor186]

You don't need to shop in the female department for variety, you simply want to because you are a CDer.

Totally agree. I subscribe to a couple of NYC YouTube street wear channels. The variety in men's street fashion captured is mind boggling. Look around, it's out there.

[Dutchess]

Of course I agree with Miel 💯.. the last time I tried to show these people what was available when they can't wear women's clothing, I got royally slammed, so I won't be doing that again.


But to say they are no vivid colors, patterns fabrics etc etc is an excuse. You just don't want too. And most everyone sees that... it just doesn't have the turn on factor that you all crave.


I love the suit shops here in Hollywood the most beautiful red and silver Paisley's oh my gosh there's crystals on the shirts and suits and everything. Lame's, velvets, satins ....

I don't know what your home like is life with the dressing but that magenta shirt depending on how you behave through all this might serve as a red flag for her and she's afraid to let you go any farther.

[char GG]

I work for a concert venue. I see satin, sequin, velvet jackets, sequin shoes, beautiful embroidered shirts, very unique menswear. Those who say they can only wear shades of black clothing are obviously not looking for anything but black suits. If you want to CD, fine. But look around, men are wearing gorgeous clothes too.

[JohnH]

You have a point there. In nature the male is usually the colorful one, needing to attract a mate. It's funny to me that most of the things GG's hate is what I love. Bra's, Heels, Nylons and wearing makeup.

We can blame the dull and drab male attire to The Great Male Renunciation that occurred in the mid 1700's. Before that calamitous trend male attire was elaborate and colorful. This topic is described in Wikipedia
I have an account with skirtcafe.org where I have put the following in the signature block: "I renounce the Great Male Renunciation!!!".

I have definitely had this thought myself. Woman have so many choices and always look comfortable while I'm in hot shorts and shirt during summer while they catch all the breeze........

Then go wear a dress or skirt as everyday attire. I wear dresses as a man to shop, to doctor appointments, and church.
I have gotten virtually no pushback and a number of women have complimented my attire.


John

[sometimes_miss]

I often wonder, where the 'most men' referred to in responses comes from. None of the other CD guys I've met have an online account to 'show off' their hot bodies/outfits.

[Bea_]

You don't need to shop in the female department for variety, you simply want to because you are a CDer.

Steve Jobs famously wore a black turtleneck and Levi's jeans every day which would seem to indicate that the "need" for variety is not necessarily a thing. Variety is a desire.

As women have come to "need" to wear pants for various undertakings, starting noticeably during WW2, it seems that the actual need for dresses and skirts have disappeared. And, there's really no need for pantihose, lace, bows, nylon underwear or any number of things that women have at their disposal to wear. Other than a bra, there's not much, as far as clothing goes, that a woman "needs" that wouldn't be fulfilled as easily from the men's department.

Women wear pants without being considered crossdressing only because some women 100 years ago said "Screw it! I'm wearing pants". Those women wanted things that were allowed only to men. I'm not sure why the opposite is so questionable.

[ReineD]

Gosh I knew this would devolve into "women can wear pants and so why can't men wear skirts" again.

I agree with the other GGs. CDers wear women's clothes because they want to, not because there isn't variety and color available in men's clothing ... because there is.

Other than a bra, there's not much, as far as clothing goes, that a woman "needs" that wouldn't be fulfilled as easily from the men's department.

Except that women have hips bigger than their waists, which men don't, making men's pants unsuitable for women's bodies. And if dresses for men were a part of the western clothing culture and widely available, women still couldn't wear them. There would not be enough room in the chest area, and the hip area would be way too tight. Dresses purchased in men's stores simply would not fit.

... and most CDers would still want to purchases their dresses from women's and not men's stores, even if the colors and the fabrics were the same.

Women wear pants without being considered crossdressing only because some women 100 years ago said "Screw it! I'm wearing pants". Those women wanted things that were allowed only to men. I'm not sure why the opposite is so questionable.

No. It was rather like, "Screw it! (No pun intended ) I will wear clothes that DO NOT signal accessibility ... because I am independent and strong, just like you. I can vote now. I am not chattel.

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

Societal norms do not currently allow men the freedom of clothing options that women enjoy. Ignoring sizing issues, there is absolutely nothing in my side of the closet that my wife couldn't wear to Walmart without getting funny looks. However if I were to wear a dress or skirt, or heels, or an obvious bra, or anything with spaghetti straps, or anything with lace, or even a t-shirt with the neck scooped too far or short sleeves that are a little too short, or shorts that are a little too short, people will notice. Even if they're polite and don't say anything, there will be thoughts and comments made behind my back (I hear from others when they see something like this). Even I notice on the rare occasion when I see a guy in something feminine (my second thought is envy, but sadly my first isn't). If I were to wear such things to a gathering of my own friends there would be much laughter and jokes (from experience here)

When I do hear comments I defend the man who had the courage to wear whatever, but my opinions only go so far in changing minds.

Cudos to those of you who, like John H, just don't care and own it. I wish I had your guts. I do push the envelope a little more when we're at our vacation home, where I'm not worried about business repercussions, but I'm still a long way from wearing a cami and mini skirt into a restaurant even there.

PS, I have several dozen women's t-shirts, and many more men's t-shirts. ONE of my women's t-shirts is uncomfortable fabric, only about 6 of my men's shirts are as soft as the majority of the women's shirts. Why??

[ReineD]

However if I were to wear a dress or skirt, or heels, or an obvious bra, or anything with spaghetti straps, or anything with lace, or even a t-shirt with the neck scooped too far or short sleeves that are a little too short, or shorts that are a little too short, people will notice. Even if they're polite and don't say anything, there will be thoughts and comments made behind my back

But why would you want to dress in a way that shows more of your body and makes you look vulnerable as a sexual object. Most women are wanting to move away from that ... unless of course they want to look sexy.

We can blame the dull and drab male attire to The Great Male Renunciation that occurred in the mid 1700's. Before that calamitous trend male attire was elaborate and colorful.

Only aristocratic men dressed in finery. The working class couldn't afford it and so most men wore pants, which was more practical.

Wearing clothing associated with the aristocrats did become problematic during the French Revolution and so the toning down of finery for men (and also women during the revolution) was political and not done to abandon a claim to be beautiful, despite the suggestion of John Flugel, who came up with the renunciation concept in 1930. I wonder if he was a crossdresser.

This is the epigragh to Flugel's 1930 book, "The Psychology of Clothes".

"S'il m’etait permis de choisir dans le fatras des livres qui seront publics cent ans apres ma mort, .savez-vous celui que je prendrais? . . Non, ce n’est point un roman que je prendrais dans cette future bibliotheque, ni un livre d’histoire: quand il offre quelque interet c'est encore un roman. Je prendrais tout bonnement, mon ami, un journal de modes pour voir comment les femmes s’habilleront un siecle apres mon trepas. Et ces chiffons m’en diraient plus sur l'humanite future que tous les philosophes, les romanciers, les predicateurs, les savants." — Anatole France."

Translation
"If I were allowed to choose from the jumble of books that will be public a hundred years after my death, do you know which one I would choose? No, I would not choose a novel from this future library, nor a history book which, when it offers some interest is still a novel. I would simply pick up, my friend, a fashion journal to see how women will dress a century after my death. And these fashions would tell me more about future humanity than all the philosophers, the novelists, the preachers, the scientists." - Anatole France.

It reads as if Flugel really loves women's clothes! Here is a PDF of the entire book:

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.../n139/mode/2up

Turn to page 110, where you can read the section entitled "The Great Masculine Renunciation and its Causes". It reads as a crossdresser's complaint to me, until page 111 where Flugel does admit that the primary causes for abandoning finery were of a political and social nature, associated with the great social upheaval of the French Revolution. Alas, on page 114, Flugel again echoes the sentiments expressed in this thread along with another sentiment often expressed by crossdressers - the idea that women are jealous of one another's fashions. There might have been a modicum of truth to this when the book was written in 1930, when women were still dependent on men for their comfort and survival, but I believe this argument is no longer valid.

... and then we have it! On page 119, Flugel attempts to explain Eonism (crossdressing) by writing that CDers dress to sympathize and identify with their female lovers, or there is an unconscious refusal to accept the lack of a penis in women and therefore a self-identification with the imaginary penis-possessing woman. He also mentions on page 121 the idea of dressing up as a form of emasculation which is certainly an idea that is titillating to some if not many members here, and also brings forth the idea of dressing as a way to relieve the stress and responsibilities of everyday life - which I've often read here.

I had never heard of The Great Male Renunciation, and so it was fun to find out where the idea came from. Again, I wonder if the author was a crossdresser himself.

[DianeT]

At the very least he checked quite a few boxes. The crossdressers' posts seem to be invariant to the passing of time.
Thanks for an interesting review, and for two aspects of crossdressing that I wasn't aware of: the refusal to accept women without a penis and the dressing as a form of emasculation. The first one doesn't ring any bell (well it makes me think of something that can be easily be found on the web, but that I'm not interested in), as for the second one, is it titillating, well, in a prosaic form I'd say hell no, but in a more symbolic form that is an interesting angle for analyzing our proclivity. Erasing the male cues by covering them with female layers of props, clothes, makeup, jewelry, mannerisms may be after all a symbolic kind of emasculation. Escaping our male condition and immersing ourselves in a feminine alternative may also be thought of as a symbolic emasculation. I would prefer the term feminization to castration or emasculation, but the latter is, at least in symbolic form, a part of the process (to leave the male cues behind).
It is interesting to note that the CDer will need to chose one or the other, as it seems hard to reconcile a craving for women with penises with a desire for castration.