Have You Ever Been Challenged in Public?

[IleneD]

I have a week of "home alone" dressing coming up. I'm planning on a few places to go OUT. Don't know why the thought of going out and about dressed is so intriguing, but it is.

Let's assume you have a pretty good handle on your "look"; passing or near passing.
Has anyone ever approached you, in a store, shop, restaurant, bar etc., and asked The Question "Are you a woman or a man?" What happened then?
And has anyone actually hassled you (in public or in front of others) about dressing; maybe even threatened you?
I'm interested in what can or might happen engaged with The Public.
Talk to me girls.

[Sara Jessica]

Never has happened and I doubt it ever will.

[ellbee]

I've been called stuff before. Probably the worst of it for me, really. And that was years & years ago. Not always fun, but I've been thru worse *non*-dressing stuff before, and I still survived.


There have been times where I temporarily passed with hetero guys -- until they realize after a while that they've been checking out a dude. Then they don't seem too happy with that, and it's best to ignore it & walk away, if you can. Because if you handle it wrong, I can see how it could escalate into something more serious.

(And I understand some here believe it's impossible for someone to pass. I beg to differ. A lot depends on the situation. If a GG is 3 feet away from you, at high-noon, and they're carrying on a conversation with you? Probably not. But if a clueless, half-drunk, horny hetero male is like 10 feet away from you in a darker environment? I think one could have better chances with that one, IMO.)

[dolovewell]

Yes to both questions.

I've been asked if I was a woman or man at coffee shop I went to one night. But it was by a curious woman in her 30s and she actually was asking because she was impressed by my look. She said there was something "off" about me but overall she was surprised at how a man could make himself look so feminine. So it was frightening at first but I was able to relax once she began to get positive.

But hassled... yes. I've told the story a lot on here. Day after New Year's Day in 2015. JC Penney was having a big post New Year's Sale. The weather was bad so the store was nearly empty that Friday Night. I went in dressed, carried about my business, tried things on, bought some things, and left the store. Apart from maybe half a dozen customers in the store, there was a group of about 20 teenagers hanging out in the store. Why, I have no idea. This was not a JC Penney attached to a mall, so why they hung out in a stand alone store on a Friday Night I'll never know.

Anyway... as I was leaving most of the teenager group was at the bottom of the escalator I was on, waiting for the 3 or 4 teens in the group on the escalator going down behind me. So the teens at the bottom of the escalator got a good, long look at me. I knew what was coming, because no way could someone look at me this long and not make the connection. As soon as I got to the bottom, one guy in the group yells out really loud so the whole floor could hear "THATS A MAN!!!!!". I was shocked and humiliated so my reaction was to just get to the parking lot and my car as quickly as possible. I walked as fast as I could and the pack of teens followed me, with several of them asking if I was a man. Thankfully the store was empty so it was really only the employees who were there to witness this. They followed me all the way up to my car, where I got in, started up my car and slammed on the gas.

What a nightmare. I'll be the first to admit I got lazy that night with my makeup and styling my wig, so I wasn't looking my best. But still, it was mortifying.

That's really only been my bad public experience. The only other thing that was somewhat hurtful was when I walked into a Target one time, and this young couple, older teens, both saw me, looked at each other, looked back at me, then looked at each other and laughed. I turned around and walked out.

Really the only problem group is teenagers. Especially if they are in groups. They have no social filter and no manners, no way of keeping their mouths shut. They will humiliate others in order to boost their status within their own group. You can't avoid them, but you can decrease your likelihood of running into them(I.e. don't go to places they congregate in groups, like a mall or movie theatre on a Friday Night). If you see a group of teenagers do your best to try and avoid them.

[Rhonda Jean]

I've been complimented by women and approached by guys (rarely). In non-binary mode I was once asked if I preferred to be addressed as male or female. I've had a couple of scary encounters, but only a couple. There's little to worry about if you use common sense and choose appropriate venues.

[Phoebe Reece]

I was asked once, "Are you a man or a woman?" I smiled and replied, "Why yes I am." The person who asked me looked a bit perplexed until he figured it out and had a good laugh.

[Jodi]

Yes. Several years ago I was out and about and a youngish man came up to me with the "are you a man or a woman" question. My first answer was " Which one would you like me to be". This seemed to confuse him. I then told him that I was more man than he will ever be and I was more woman than he would ever get. I then walked away leaving him to stare at me.

jodi

[Julogden]

I don't think I've ever been asked if I was a man or woman, but that's because I don't generally pass, so people don't usually have to ask. I've been harassed though.

[Leslie Langford]

The 3 "worst" things that I have ever experienced upon being "read" were as follows:

- being "sir"-ed by a female SA one time when I was out shopping en femme and paying for a dress that I had just tried on in the ladies' fitting room. And you know what happened? Nothing. Zip, zilch, nada.

I sincerely believe that no malice was intended here, nor was there a deliberate attempt at mis-gendering me by the SA. She seemed genuinely confused about which way to address me, tried to be professional and politically correct about it in her own way, and clearly hadn't had the ubiquitous sensitivity training that now seems to be de riguer when it comes to dealing with us transgender folk. Actually, the only bruising that occurred was to my ego, as I thought that I had done a particularly good job with my female presentation that day. Go figure!

- browsing amongst the racks in a shoe store and minding my own business when I noticed a 10-12 year-old girl surreptitiously checking me out from the other side of one of them and seeing her eyes get bigger and bigger as she began to connect the dots. She was with her mother, and I noticed soon afterwards a flurry of whispering taking place between the two, who were obviously discussing me and what to make of this vision. To her credit, Mom quickly shushed and shut down her demon seed, declined to make eye contact with me so as to avoid any awkwardness to all parties concerned, and we all continued to carry on business as usual after this brief encounter.

- one time in a women's restroom a young GG gave me the once-over as I approached the mirror to fix my make up and hair (wig), followed by a cheery "Hi!" My initial reaction was that she was just being super-friendly, but since that was a rather unusual occurrence from my past experience, it later dawned on me that maybe she had read me and tried to draw me out (male voice, perhaps?) to confirm her suspicions. I smiled back at her, replied in my best "femme" voice (never, ever, let them smell the fear ), and that seemed to settle that. She continued on with what she was doing - as did I - and no "incident" occurred as a result of this encounter.

On the plus side, I was walking down a downtown street one evening while wearing a particularly fetching outfit, and in the distance saw a group of men talking while loitering near a lamp post. As I approached closer, I noticed that they were actually standing across from a bar that they had obviously just ducked out of to have a smoke. Following my "don't let them smell the fear" credo here again, I boldly continued on and passed right in front of them (no pun intended - LOL). Of course, they all checked me out - the "click-clack" of stilettos on pavement will do that to a man . As I did this, one guy enthusiastically shouted out "Will you marry me?" as he looked me up and down with admiring eyes. I just smiled demurely, hoping with all my heart that this cat-call would not escalate into something more serious. Fortunately it didn't, and I took solace in the fact that alcohol was likely involved here, clouding both his perception of me as well as dampening any potentially more aggressive behavior. Still, a compliment is a compliment and clearly it was well-intentioned albeit somewhat misguided, but Hey! - I'll take it.

So, the moral of my "passing" story - at least from my experience so far - is that sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose, but I've never been "outed" nor treated with anything less than dignity and respect even when "read" by the muggles.

-

[Tracii G]

I have been asked which are you male or female and I have answered "both" but thanks for asking and turned away or walked off.
None have been in a derogatory manner just curious people I guess.
It kind of hurts when you think you have done a great job in your presentation.
I have had a few not so nice confrontations with young guys that think they have figured out something earth shattering that a guy would wear womens clothes.
The last time I relayed the event here but essentially a guy followed me out of a 7-11 store and grabbed my shoulder and tagged him in his nose hard enough to send him to the ground.
A person saw the incident and called the police. so the guy was embarrassed a gay guy cleaned his clock but he got arrested in the process for assault.
The police lady thought it was kind of funny but she said he got what was coming to him.
She never challenged the fact I was a crossdresser and it didn't matter to her.
Her partner said I did the right thing and he had watched the store security camera tape and was pretty impressed that this little "lady" dropped the brute with one punch.
The police man was very professional and he used the proper pronouns but the policewoman seemed a bit uncomfortable at first but she did a very good job.
Anyway I did file charges and the guy got 90 days in lock up and 1 year in the prison for violating his parole.

[Sara Jessica]

I think my reply deserves some clarification.

The original premise is rather specific, are you a man or a woman? It goes on to bring up harassment or threatening behavior. To these I stand by my answer, no. However, some are writing about simply being read for who/what we are and in that case...yes, it happens often enough...I dare to say regularly. But other than the occasional sir (like what part of my presentation compels you to call me sir?!?!) or snicker, I don't count positive engagements by those who see me for who/what I am as being negative encounters as suggested in the OP.

[sara.rafaela]

I have been out a lot, to New York, San Francisco, Las Vegas, San Diego, São Paulo. I can pass at a distance. I go out mostly at night, where the lighting is not so great and that seems to help. I go to shopping areas, restaurants, bars, and clubs. When I started I only went to places that were LGBT friendly. These days I will go anywhere. For the most part people tend to ignore me or do not notice. Once I heard a tourist exclaim, "hey, that's a guy". I thought nothing of it and moved on. Another time I was in a multi story shopping mall. There was a girl in a kiosk, by the stairs, selling some cosmetics. Every time I passed by she yelled for me. Annoying. Recently I went out to a new area for me, the North Beach of San Francisco. This area has a lot of bars and clubs, and seems to attract out of towners. I got a strange look from the bartender and some of the clients. The clients were in golf shirts and jeans, looked like the type that spent Sunday watching football and drinking beer, not the usual SF crowd for me. However, most, 99% of my experiences have been great. Many times people approach me and I get into some really nice conversations. I have started to become a regular at some places and people welcome my presence. I really like going out.

[IleneD]

Thanks for the story. Great stuff, and I'm glad you're safe at the end of the tale.
I find it disappointing that such things, as I imagined and you sadly endured, do indeed happen. It was kind of the point of my story.
I would hate to have a physical confrontation in heels. It would end badly for all.

Cool about the police lady, though

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

A great learning story, Sara. Thank you very much.
The take-away I get is that fools will still yell out or call you out. Amazing, but perhaps I shouldn't be amazed.
I'm thinking of taking in a late movie on the first night out (with a quick drink at the adjoining martini bar). Maybe a daytime shopping trip to Macy's, Dillards & Nordstrom. I'm thinking of taking up morning walks in femme.

But, in a way I'd be mortified to have someone give me such an ignorant shout-out. I shall endeavor to make this first trip into The World in another ZIP code.
Thanks.

[Nikki A.]

Never really had a problem being out and about. I know I've been read, either a long second look, a smile or giggle. Once I was walking into a diner and an older gent held the door for me and when I thanked him he said you're welcome sir. I laughed to myself but was also a bit disappointed in that I thought I looked especially good that day, Oh well

[Jesse Six]

Most of the time, people don't challenge you, because most people are conflict-averse. It's like your parents used to say "They're more scared of you than you are of them!"

Typical stuff:
- People lock eyes with you as you're walking by. They notice, and their eyes get wide.
- A couple people nearby notice, and you see them turn to one another and whisper, then they do a 'double take' at you.
- You hear a couple people behind you gasp and get quiet. Then you hear them laugh. You look, and they're staring at you.
- You're paying for something, and the sales person looks you in the face, their eyes get wide, and suddenly they're trying to look at anything but in your eyes. They're trying to look like they're not staring, but unfortunately they're really conspicuous about it. I just try to smile sweetly to cut through the awkward.

It's all pretty harmless, but it tests your confidence.


I remember being openly intimidated once:

I was walking home after a party, downtown, pretty late at night. I wasn't worried because it was a busy part of town.

Two quite drunk homeless guys (they could barely walk and were pushing a shopping cart) stopped me on a street corner. One of them proceeds to tell me a joke:
"Hey, why don't men go into the women's bathroom?... Because it says 'Whoa - man'!"
Then he gave me a squinty-eyed sneer. The message was pretty clear.

All along, his friend keeps staring at me with a really intense smile on his face (google "Kubrick stare"). It sent shivers down my spine.

I just said something like "That's nice... I gotta go" and walked off.

[dolovewell]

(And I understand some here believe it's impossible for someone to pass. I beg to differ. A lot depends on the situation. If a GG is 3 feet away from you, at high-noon, and they're carrying on a conversation with you? Probably not. But if a clueless, half-drunk, horny hetero male is like 10 feet away from you in a darker environment? I think one could have better chances with that one, IMO.)

Id rather jump off the Space Needle than put myself in an environment where i was dressed in the presence of half drunk horny men

[Valery L]

When I was young and I had long hair (I let it grow again but it is not as long as I had it) there were some times in which I was addressed as a woman even when I was not crossdressed, at that time I was strictly a closeted crossdresser. In one of those occasions, I was at a very busy street market, and I was dressed with a rocker/gothic look so I had eyeliner and I was even wearing black lipstick. I was walking with my girlfriend (now ex) and one girl passed net to us and said loudly, is that a man or a woman?!, I did not care, actually since I was in guy mode I took it as a compliment besides their intentions were obviously bad.

Before I started going out dressed in a regular basis, I sometimes grabbed some of my mother's stuff and dressed partially just to drive dressed like that and in some occasions to go to some places that I thought were empty to take a walk. I don't want to give many details but yeah, some people saw me dressed while driving or while walking. I was not completely dressed so it was pretty obvious that I was not a woman. I never received a bad comment but I received horrible stares and was really ashamed.

The first time that I went out fully dressed was to a metal concert in other city, it was awesome and I was not alone, actually a female friend who knew about my crossdressing gave me the idea and was my companion. During the concert, nothing happened, I am sure that I was unnoticed. However, when the concert "finished", there was a pause that lasted for about 10 minutes until the band came back to play a couple of additional songs. In that time, a girl who was next to us, noticed me. She did not say anything but she was looking at me completely surprised and I think also disgusted, but nothing happened.

When going out became a regular activity for me (it started like 6 months ago), the first two or three times I did it without a wig, my hair was short, and my makeup skills sucked. So it was obvious that I was a guy in a dress. Besides some surprised looks when some people saw me. Nothing happened, most of the people simply did not care, even when my appearance was clearly the one of a guy wearing women's clothes, I was never challenged. My makeup skills improved significantly after a couple of weeks and I finally purchased a wig. Since then, I think I became more and more passable. When sales people refer to me, they always do it using feminine nouns, with the exception of a specific person in one store, he calls me sir. I don't know if there is a mean purpose behind it but I do not care, and personally I do not think so because he always treats me well besides that.

Some men have approached me and had tried to hit on me, and no one has said anything about my gender, with the exception of the guy who wanted to take me to a motel to rape me last Sunday, which I am not sure if immediately noticed my gender, or if he did it after talking to me and after I told him that I had a girlfriend and I was not interested in men. Occasionally, some women give me long looks but most of them simply smile at me after I smile at them, I really like when girls look at me. Only three times I was sure that I was clocked. One of them was when I began to use a wig and began to improve in my appearance. It was late at night and I took the bus to my apartment, but that is the bus that the students normally use to go to the bars and return home. The bus was almost empty, excepting a group of two guys and one girl, they sat next to me and after some time, the girl which was completely drunk started to look at me, it lasted for five minutes. I just tried to ignore her. After that she talked in "secret" to her two friends and obviously told them about what she found. They quickly looked at me and then looked to each other and smiled. It was not a good experience, but again, I was not confronted and nothing happened. Actually I liked the fact that the girl did not clocked me immediately, and her two friends would never locked me by themselves. Also she was drunk, so her "hostile" reaction probably was motivated by the effect of alcohol, and finally, that was my first wig, it is a short one that does not fit me as good as the one that I use now, so maybe with my current wig, that event would never happen. The second time was one time that I was walking in the mall, a couple of middle age women passed next to me and began to look surprised at me, they talked to each other and looked at me again. However, I am not sure if the reason of that was because, I had an erection at that moment (yeah, sometimes I become too excited when dressed), and since I cannot tuck (I have a hydrocele) it is sometimes hard for me to hide my male things, so maybe it became noticeable enough when I walked next to them. Finally, the last time that something like that happened to me was in the church, I attended mass, and a young girl with her mother were sitting at a neighboring bench. I saw them looking at me smiling and then talking between them. It happened once during the whole ceremony, and I actually feel flattered since I like when women look at me, again, besides that, nothing happened. Sorry for the long post.

[Kate Simmons]

Can't say as I ever have been. Guess I'm not interesting enough.

[Tracii G]

Valery people that love metal music are some of the nicest people at concerts.
I have been to literally 100's of shows and have seen CDer's in the crowd and never have I seen any problems.
Its about the music and they don't care what you dress like. If you are into metal you are family.

[ellbee]

Id rather jump off the Space Needle than put myself in an environment where i was dressed in the presence of half drunk horny men

That's why I used to go clubbing always with a mixed group of several friends (males presenting as guys, GG's, TG's, etc.)

I also used to try to make it a point to sit next to one of my guy-friends.


Strange men are usually a bit intimidated approaching someone in that kind of situation.

Didn't always work (e.g., still got hit on in hetero bars sometimes), but overall it definitely helped protect me.

[I Am Paula]

Maybe a couple of long looks, but never a word said. Granted, I stay out of North Carolina.

[Allisa]

As anyone who has been here for awhile can tell you I've had my fair share of encounters, too many to list here, from loud obnoxious ones to kindly asking if I was transitioning. I don't go to venues where alcohol is being consumed in large quantities so I don't put myself in certain situations for other reasons than being outed or possibly harmed in any way. Funny how the gamut runs from the quite young to the elderly and is mostly female but some males usually in the company of their SO. Generally my outings are event free, yes there are the stares, the whispers and the moving away as if they could catch something but I take it all in stride and enjoy myself. I know when I leave the house that at a distance I may look the part but upon closer inspection there is no denying my physical gender although I try like heck to disguise it. Now all of this happens when I'm dressed to my full femme expression, but if in my more androgynous, feminine male form of dressing things are definitely different. Almost forgot about the flirtation event with a very nice gentleman, only one so far, but very strange for me.

[dolovewell]

Typical stuff:
- People lock eyes with you as you're walking by. They notice, and their eyes get wide.
- A couple people nearby notice, and you see them turn to one another and whisper, then they do a 'double take' at you.
- You hear a couple people behind you gasp and get quiet. Then you hear them laugh. You look, and they're staring at you.
- You're paying for something, and the sales person looks you in the face, their eyes get wide, and suddenly they're trying to look at anything but in your eyes. They're trying to look like they're not staring, but unfortunately they're really conspicuous about it. I just try to smile sweetly to cut through the awkward.

I can handle all of those easily except the last one. The first 3, are frequent and you become desensitized to them.

But the last one I always have a hard time with. I'd say half the time, the SAs and cashiers are friendly and not uncomfortable.

But the other half I feel like the SA or cashier, based on her body language, appears as if I am holding her at gunpoint and forcing her to empty the register. Where she is so uncomfortable she is stiff, tense, perhaps even slightly trembling, and doing all she can not to make eye contact with you, trying to go as fast as possible so she can get out of your sight. I always feel like a piece of garbage when this happens.

[Jenniferathome]

Ilene, I have been out many times. I do not pass for a genetic woman. No one has ever challenged me or said anything negative, ever. I am sure it will happen sometime, but I think there is a freedom in knowing that I am not fooling anyone. I am not glaring when I go out and always dress for my age, time, location and event. I am convinced that what makes for a positive experience is YOUR confidence that you belong.

Don't worry about the normals, they will notice you and they really do not care.

[michelleddg]

My favorite challenge was a few years back at the Fashion Mall in Las Vegas. A smart guy at a kiosk said "excuse me, sir!" as I walked by obviously hoping for a reaction. Amazing I walked by without instinctively reacting. Yay me! These guys are obviously used to seeing us at the mall, can pick us a mile away and are bored out of their skulls. After my initial shock I was mostly just amused. Hugs, Michelle