My life is a bloody mess

[giuseppina]

First, I am sorry to hear of your issues with a dissolving marriage. I agree with the advice posted above, including that your ex may try to sabotage any new relationships.

Second, it's time to hire a lawyer. There's often a lot of nonsense that happens in a dissolving marriage. It is in your favour that you don't instigate or respond in kind, as the judge will see through it if it comes to going to court.

Continuing counselling for the time being is a good plan. Your ex's betrayal of trust is something that needs processing over time. It's too soon to get into another serious relationship. Give yourself significant time to heal, like six months or more.

Crossdressing is not an acceptable excuse for cheating, IMHO.

[IamWren]

Maybe I'm in the minority on this but I'm not sure you need to rush to tell the new interest about CD.
Not to be crude but another example comes to mind. You don't pass gas in the car on the first date but that doesn't mean you don't do it.... OK, bad example.

I don't think it's a bad example at all. In fact I think it's a perfect way of saying Marina should hold off on telling this new woman about his CDing. Which is another way of saying you're not the only one who thinks she shouldn't say a thing at all about CDing right now.

Marina I do hope you heed the advice many of our fellow CD sisters have given.

Hugs,
S

[MarinaSweden]

Thank you for all your good advise as well as the warm feelings you give me. It is important to me. Sometimes, it is difficult to express your self in another language, and sometimes it is difficult to understand. I realized that I don't think this new woman is "funny", I suppose she is "fun" ? And i didn't quite get the metaphore about putting gas in the car.

Well that aside, the thing with my marriage is that we decided already in november that I should move out. Last time we had sex was in august. So even though it took a couple of months to find a house I wanted to buy, my process didn't start when i found out about my wife cheating on me. My fear of being alone and also concern for my children made me want to stay in this unhealthy marriage. That don't in any way mean she didn't hurt med deeply, down to the bone when I found out.

So about telling or not telling. I think maybe the best is to wait a bit so I can see where this relationship is going. But that I have to let her in on my secret sooner or later. Like someone said, you will not present her to your mother, sisters and brothers at this point. But I know we have no future if she decpises me for who I am. But even if i actually do think it is unfair, I will keep it to myself if she don't like it.

I haven't dressed since before the first time we met. But yesterday, oh how much I yearned to put on a dress, nylons and some high heels.

PS. I have always thought that being cheeted on by your since long time wife would be the ultimate blow, humiliation and the worst thing someone can do to another person. I wondered how i would react. Would I actually use violence? Would I beat her up? To tell you the truth, even though I am not in any way a violent man, I wasn't sure. But that was in theory when I never expected it to happen to me. Now I know that I didn't. What happened was that I was in a state of chock. My sight were blurry. I had a big trouble taking it in. I cried so much. But I now know I will never be violent to woman, no matter what. That is at least something I have learned about myself.

[ReineD]

I have for a time now been able to fully dress every day. Yes it is wonderful, but I have come to the conclusion that finding a woman to love, who loves me, is more important. So, if I manage to stop crossdressing, is it to lie if I don't tell her what I used to do? Is it crazy to think that I have to choose between a woman and wearing womens clothes? And that I would be able to choose the woman?

Yes, it is a lie, because you will not stop crossdressing permanently. You yourself said that you've been struggling with this since childhood. How long did it take for the urges to return after you married your wife. And how long did it take for the urges to be so strong that you felt you had to leave so you could dress freely. The relationship with your new love will not make the CDing stop indefinitely - we've had a lot of members over the years say that although the urge to dress seemed to disappear when they were first in love and beginning relationships with beautiful and smart women, this only lasted a few years.

It is best to tell now and take a chance, than get deeper into the relationship only to discover in the future that she does not approve. Also if you do tell her, please don't make it sound less than what it is, else you are creating problems for yourself down the line. If the need to dress on a daily basis is the level that you are comfortable at now, she should know because this is the level that you chance returning to eventually.

On a slightly different note, I read a bit about Sweden's general attitudes towards LGBT. Your country is one of the most progressive with regards to gay rights. It is also progressive in supporting transition, but it had a terribly repressive practice that only ended a few years ago, which was to require everyone seeking transition to undergo sterilization. So I'm wondering how well society in general accepted people who transcend the gender barriers, if they insisted they should not have children. The laws did change a few years ago and transitioners are now legally able to have children, but culturally, do people in general still believe it is undesirable to transition and if so, do these negative attitudes spill over onto crossdressers? I ask, to try to gauge the likelihood of your girlfriend to accept. Has she also fallen in love with you and if so, is there a chance she might be accepting?

Here's the article:
http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/01/14/...sterilization/

[MarinaSweden]

On a slightly different note, I read a bit about Sweden's general attitudes towards LGBT. Your country is one of the most progressive with regards to gay rights. It is also progressive in supporting transition, but it had a terribly repressive practice that only ended a few years ago, which was to require everyone seeking transition to undergo sterilization. So I'm wondering how well society in general accepted people who transcend the gender barriers, if they insisted they should not have children. The laws did change a few years ago and transitioners are now legally able to have children, but culturally, do people in general still believe it is undesirable to transition and if so, do these negative attitudes spill over onto crossdressers? I ask, to try to gauge the likelihood of your girlfriend to accept. Has she also fallen in love with you and if so, is there a chance she might be accepting?

I would say that if I were to let everyone know about my crossdressing, 85-89% would not react at all. many of those would find it interesting. 10-14% would think it is strange but wouldn't say anything. 1% would be openly hostile. I have not heard any negative thoughts from anyone I have told my secret to. I have not heard of any other TV/TS person I know here that they have had any negative experiences either. It is in general that progressive. It is certainly not comme il faut to admit you have anything against homosexuality or transgenders. Your friends would no longer be your friends if you say homofobic things. In that regard, Sweden is fantastic.
I know about the sterlization law, and it is strange that it wasn't changed earlier. But Transsexuality hasn't been so well known by people as Homosexuality. So I guess the politicians did put to much focus on that.
So why am I not totally out in the open? Well, for the risk that the 1 out of 100 that are hostile would be a person that has some sort of power over me. Like a neigbour that hates med and smashes my car. Or someone at work that makes it impossible for me to stay on the job. Not worth the risk, even if it is very very tiny.

But, and this is a big BUT. The NMH (not my husband) syndrome is as real here as anywhere else. I know that my wife felt very thretened in her femininity by me. She told me so, but that wasn't the reason for us splitting up.

And I agree, it would be so difficult to stop alltogether. My god, only a bit more than a week since I dressed and shit how I would like to do it again. But so far, I haven't had the urge when I have been with her.

[ClosetED]

I did not have the urge for 2 years when I fell in love with wife. Love and severe illness are best suppressors of crossdressing. But all here have the same story - it will return. So best to be open with her. If she accepts and goes at her pace, you win big. The longer you hide it from her, the more angry she might be if the 1%. While she is not in position over you, your fear she would tell someone who is, out of anger, is greater if you delay.
Hugs, Ellen

[MarinaSweden]

I am not that afraid that either my wife (which is the most likely situation) nor the new woman would out me. I am confident that I would get all the sympathy if that would happen. Neither of them have any connections to my neigbours or collecgues at my workplace.
In a way, I would be releived if my wife were to tell everyone we both know about me being transgendered.

But I agree, I am going to have to tell the new woman. It will hurt like hell if she leaves med, but I have to go throught it. But not yet.

[ReineD]

I would say that if I were to let everyone know about my crossdressing, 85-89% would not react at all. many of those would find it interesting. 10-14% would think it is strange but wouldn't say anything. 1% would be openly hostile. I have not heard any negative thoughts from anyone I have told my secret to. I have not heard of any other TV/TS person I know here that they have had any negative experiences either. It is in general that progressive. It is certainly not comme il faut to admit you have anything against homosexuality or transgenders. Your friends would no longer be your friends if you say homofobic things. In that regard, Sweden is fantastic.

Thanks for letting me know what it's like in Sweden. So then it looks as if the chances your girlfriend will be accepting are fairly good? This is even more reason to be fully honest with her now, don't you think?

The NMH (not my husband) syndrome is as real here as anywhere else. I know that my wife felt very thretened in her femininity by me. She told me so, but that wasn't the reason for us splitting up.

I've just finished explaining this in another post, but when you say she felt threatened in her femininity, it implies that she felt less feminine somehow because she felt that you usurped her femininity? Is this what you meant? This does not make sense, since her body and her estrogen levels did not change, in other words (and I'm sorry to mention this), her role as a woman in a hetero relationship remained unchanged with her new partner. When wives feel threatened, it is generally because they feel that their husbands appreciate their own femininity more than the wives' femininity. It's like having a rival for the husband's affections in the form of the husband's alter-ego. When non-CDers become interested in other women, the wives do feel sad or angry that their husbands are interested in someone else, but they still know they are women fully capable of interesting other men.

But so far, I haven't had the urge when I have been with her.

There have been many others in this forum who have gone through the same thing, and they said this didn't last.

[MarinaSweden]

On the last quote, I know. I have been there before. But what I meant was that I don't feel the urge when I am actually together with her.

About my wife feeling thretened, she has told me that several times. She has said that my wearing womens clothes makes her want to wear feminin clothes, allthough she has not started to use mens clothes. But I think your explanation if quite near the truth.

And yes, it might just be that she will accept me. Or at least not run away. But I can't be sure.

I had an idea yesterday. I have TV friends that are married. What if I would ask one to meet us for dinner dressed? He and his wife? Then I can see how she reacts.

[xNicolex]

Hi Marina, It sounds to me like you are reaching. What I mean by this is your wife accepted or at least partly accepted your crossdressing. For us that is so important to be accepted, to be seen, to be ourselves. You say you were depressed well that could be down to the fact that your wife was cheating on you maybe felt guilty and inadvertently took it out on you, which is still no excuse. I believe that your love for her after the split and after finding that mail of unfaithfulness was coming from that sense of ''will I find someone who will accept me again''. (Side note on infidelity if you can prove that she was unfaithful during the course of your marriage then she has no right to pursue for financial aid) thought I'd mention that because I hate liar's :Angry3: But back to business being alone as a crossdresser is harder i think than just being a single norm as you have opened up that part of you for someone to see. Then you split and fear rejection of opening up to someone all over again and it's so damn hard to do that. I really feel for you on this By the sounds of the girl you are seeing now it sounds positive. At least she didn't jump into bed at the first chance she got, that says alot about a persons integrity and it's a good thing to find in someone. As for telling her about Marina well there are two schools of thought on that, 1. you tell her now before you fall helplessly in love with her, If that happens it will be alot harder on you if she decides that it's not her thing. 2. Tell her later but she might not appreciate the secrecy this may cause further issues. Which brings us back to number one a world of hurt for both of you. Then again there is also a chance that she will be absolutely cool with it. Whatever you decide to do I wish you the best of luck

[heatherdress]

So about telling or not telling. I think maybe the best is to wait a bit so I can see where this relationship is going. But that I have to let her in on my secret sooner or later. Like someone said, you will not present her to your mother, sisters and brothers at this point. But I know we have no future if she decpises me for who I am. But even if i actually do think it is unfair, I will keep it to myself if she don't like it.

Marina - Only you should decide when to confide to a new girlfriend that you crossdress. If you tell her too soon, she will most likely be an ex-girlfriend. If you delay, it becomes harder and she still might become your ex-girlfriend. If you do not tell her, you have guilt, still have the risk of discovery, and she might become your ex-wife. Everyone and every situation is different.

You have to be very careful and be concerned about your own well-being and emotional state-of-mind right now. In the last few weeks, you have split with your wife, discovered her unfaithfulness, and met a new woman. Those are all significant emotional events. You acknowledge your self-esteem issue, depression, anger, fear of being alone and desperation. You have a daughter to think about, and probably divorce. I would think you should not be getting deeply involved with anyone until you heal so maybe you should not worry about telling her right now that you also crossdress. If you were to lose someone you seem to care very much about because you told her you crossdress, you would have a crushing rejection to add to your sadness. Maybe you should maintain some distance, heal and continue to get to know this woman a little better before you risk rejection. Become her friend, first.

[ClosetED]

Marina, having a married TV couple as a double date sounds great, but would your new girlfriend be more comfortable if the husband did not dress, but brought it up in conversation? Then you can support that activity and see what she says about it. Just a thought.
Hugs, Ellen

[Stephanie47]

I read your initial post and your responses....not everyone's. You being in Sweden you will probably not get the express attributable to the great New York Yankee great, Yogi Berra: "It's deju vu all over again!" It can be your primed yourself to be ready for another relationship because you're the type of person who needs companionship. Some people are "loners." Is it better to live in a deceitful way, enjoy the moment, and, be willing to have it "blow up in your face later?" How will you react to the rejection? How will you react to trying to purge your thoughts of cross dressing. There's also the possibility the woman new to you will be accepting initially and then find cross-dressing is something she is not interested in.

Just think before jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

[CONSUELO]

Marina,
Sorry to hear of all of your trials. I do hope you will be much happier soon. I see that many people here have given you some good advice about your new relationship. I would just add that you must tell your new lady friend that you are a cross dresser. Yes it will risk the friendship but to not tell her and see the friendship deepen while your desire to cross dress does not diminish will just make things harder and much more distressing. Be gentle but do be open and be prepared to help her understand what your cross dressing is about.

Best wishes

[Alice Torn]

Marina, You sound too bloody desperate to have another SO WAY TOO SOON. On the rebound, way too fast. It almost always does not work. Friends only right now, is the best. You need months or a year to heal. Having sex with her is selfish,. and not in her best interest or yours. But,. having a platonic friendship, AFTER you tell her about marina, taking your time to get to know each other, without sex, is best.

[sometimes_miss]

So, if I manage to stop crossdressing, is it to lie if I don't tell her what I used to do?

FWIW; I have been dating women on and off since my divorce 18 years ago. I don't come outright and tell them that I crossdress. I carefully try to find out how they will respond to such an admission. And it hasn't been good. So it's really up to you. If you decide to tell, perhaps one way to go is, "I used to be a crossdresser'. Having it as something in the past may make it more acceptable, perhaps at least get you a little more time to get her to understand that it doesn't define who and what you are. And that's important, because if she DOES define crossdressing as what you are, your chances are not good. Very, very few women have any attraction to a man who crossdresses. Let me change that. Most women are sexually turned off by the idea of a man wearing female attire and behaving like a female. TURNED OFF. The thought of kissing a man passionately while he's 'en femme' is repulsive to them, and the image of you as a woman is what's going to go through their mind whenever they interact with you in an intimate way. And if someone is sexually turned off by you, any intimate relationship is not going to survive.

So good luck. Go slowly. Or the odds are you'll be alone for the rest of your life. OR.....spin the big prize wheel, and come right out with it and tell her. The question you have to ask yourself, is, 'Do I feel lucky?'. The percentage of women who would consider dating a man who crossdressers is about 1%. The percentage that are enthusiastic about it is way, way less than that, well into the decimal range. Even here on this forum, wives who love to crossdress their husbands are in the single digits. Out of 20,000+. Still, there's an outside chance; that still leaves 0.01% of the female population, so there are a few out there, even in Sweden. Figure about 10 million, that means about 5 million women, maybe 1 million within your dating range. So, there are maybe 100 women in your country that are good to go for a crossdresser. MAYBE. Now, how many of them will be compatible with you? Maybe 5 or 10, and it's that many because you're likely willing to put up with a whole lot of stuff that you wouldn't have to if you weren't a crossdresser. 5 or 10 in the whole country. Now you see what you're facing. And you understand why I don't tell anyone up front.

[Alice Torn]

I am afraid Sometimes Miss is correct about what she wrote. Women who accept are almost non existent . My 68 yr old sister, never dated, nor married, never wanted a boyfriend all her life. I actually considered coming out to her once. Before i did, i told her about a singles dance, where i thought I would ask a very tall lady to dance with me. After a few seconds, i realized it was a CD TG, but i kept dancing till the song was over. My sister cringed when i told her, so I realized she does not like men, and also does not like them dressed as women, either. I now agree with others who said to tell her fairly soon, about the dressing. If she rejects you because of it, better now, than much later, after you invested yourself a lot.

[ReineD]

And you understand why I don't tell anyone up front.

So when is a CDer supposed to tell. A year? Two? Or wait until after they're married?

My advice is to always tell as soon as the relationship develops from initial interest or friendship, to love. Marina is already in love and I'm assuming that people don't usually fall head over heels unless they sense that the feelings are returned?

Marina ... you never did answer my question. Do you sense that she is in love with you too?

[Kate T]

I'm pretty sure Marina said in her original post that she thought her new friend had strong feelings for her.

This one is a no brainer. YOU WONT STOP. YOU SHOULD TELL HER.

Got it. What is the worst that can happen? She splits up with you now before you have invested even more emotional energy in the relationship? Vs You hide it and continue the relationship, get more committed and tell her thence splits up with you and you are even more affected?

Tell her now. Tell her the truth as much as you understand it. And start learning about yourself. You've suppressed this for so long you need to start learning and exploring and work out where you need to go.

NB: Your first marriage did NOT end because you crossdress. It likely ended for a variety of reasons. You aren't a bad / sick / weak / weird person because you crossdress. You are just you. If your wife was unable to be faithful then it was not your fault. You are also not weak or a bad person for loving her. We all make mistakes, both you and your ex wife.

[sometimes_miss]

So when is a CDer supposed to tell. A year? Two? Or wait until after they're married?

I assume you're writing this for new members, because I've answered this many times in the past. The answer to 'when' varies. Sometimes it can be a week, sometimes a few months, sometimes never if it becomes clear that they are firmly against it. I wait until I know how they feel about the subject. Over time, I will gradually bring up topics about known alternate lifestyles and the celebrities that live them. Ask if they have anyone in their family who is lgbt. Ask how they feel about them; are they close, are they disgusted with the idea, how they feel about knowing someone who's sexual life is so different from her own. While watching TV tune in so that maybe Rupaul's show (or an episode of some talk show with a lgbt guest, family or child) comes on next, and discuss the people on it with her. Caitlyn was an excellent topic, and I've used her as a reference with several women to see how they feel about this. Continue until you hit the point where she says something to the effect that she could never date/marry a man who behaves that way (or if very, very lucky, and win the crossdresser lottery, find out that she's open to sexual diversity in her own life). Then we have the option of outing ourselves to her (either if we think she may change her mind which isn't usually likely, or just as a way to end it), or just finding a way to end the relationship with some other reason, and it can't be something that denigrates her (my most common excuse is that I was contacted by my ex, and want so see if we can patch things up; I think most women can understand that we still care about our exes at least a little bit).
Initially, it was difficult for me to do this. it took a lot of planning and coming up with scenarios in order to 'feel out' how the woman feels about this. But over time, I've gotten good at it. I'm not doing this to hurt anyone. But I don't deserve to be hurt, myself, either, just because of other people's ignorance. That I refuse to tolerate. I've been hurt a lot in my life because of that, and I won't put up with it anymore. If someone thinks I'm less of a deserving human being just based on gender dysphoria, and don't believe everything they can observe about me and what I tell them, then they don't deserve my respect, and they should be happy that I'm so careful to do my best not to hurt their feelings. It would be much easier to just stop calling them or come up with something hurtful that they can't change as the reason for ending it. But I don't do that.

I get the feeling that either you forgot why I didn't tell my wife, or again, just wanted it to be told again for newer members to read. So again, in short, I believed that I had 'beaten it'. I hadn't crossdressed for several years when I met her, and didn't for years into the marriage. Like many other things, it was in the past, I had hurt no one, so I didn't think it was something that she either needed to know, or would want to know. Much the same as she didn't tell me that she was treated for major depression before we met, that she has passive aggressive tendencies, or that her mom was an alcoholic. What I find fascinating is when women defend her 'omissions' justified, but mine, not so much.

[ReineD]

Thanks for your response, S_M. I've read so many posts from so many different people over the years (in the thousands) that it's difficult for me to remember specifics. I would remember the details of your story if I went back and read all your older posts, but I don't remember it all right off the bat. Maybe this is a function of aging.

[MarinaSweden]

Marina ... you never did answer my question. Do you sense that she is in love with you too?

Sorry, missed out on that one. I can say for sure that she definetly is in love with me. Yes.

The funny thing is that she says things about me like, "I have never met a man I can talk to like this, hos listens, and can open up and talk about his feelings like you do". Or "I have never met a man that can touch me the way you do (I know I am good at that, and I can see from how she shivers that she at least enjoys it very much), so unselfishely." Or "You say such beautiful things to me, all the time, you are so romantic". Well, sure this can be just her way of making me feel good about myself and boost my self confidence, but the thing about my capability to talk about feelings, and being a good listerner is something I have heard from so many other female friends. And the other things, yeah well take it for what it is worth, but I have a feeling that I am more focused on her pleasure than many other men. And I think I enjoy physical contact more than most, something she appreciates. She has told me about other men she have known that more or less don't want that outside sex.
I beleive that the reason for me being different in those ways are because I have a strong female side. So wouldn't i be funny if a woman rejects me for having a female side to me, when that side also can be something she really likes...?

By the way, I have not been in here for a couple of days. I have spent wednesday to late saturday with this woman. And then sunday afternoon until late evening.

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

While watching TV tune in so that maybe Rupaul's show (or an episode of some talk show with a lgbt guest, family or child) comes on next, and discuss the people on it with her. Caitlyn was an excellent topic

Much the same as she didn't tell me that she was treated for major depression before we met, that she has passive aggressive tendencies, or that her mom was an alcoholic. What I find fascinating is when women defend her 'omissions' justified, but mine, not so much.

She acutally suggested we go and see the movie "The Danish Girl". I am not sure if it is shown in the US, meaning that you know what it is about, I am a quite curious as to see what her thoughts will be when we've seen it.

We have been extremely open towards each other. She told me that her husband was unfaithful to her when her marriage ended six years ago. I have told her about my situation. I have told her I am seing a psychiatrist, which she has done as well. Her father was an alcoholic etc. There are very few secrets left of that kine. Maybe only my desire to dress as a woman.

[Kate T]

She acutally suggested we go and see the movie "The Danish Girl". I am not sure if it is shown in the US, meaning that you know what it is about, I am a quite curious as to see what her thoughts will be when we've seen it.

Have you seen Danish Girl?? That is a hardcore start to the CD / TG conversation. My wife and I loved the movie but I'm transitioned. I have a number of friends who are smart and sensitive people who have seen it and found it very confronting.

If you do go and see it then you pretty much almost have to tell her. Because if you don't and this relationship continues she is going to say "why didn't you tell me then?". And be ready for the 3 big questions.

Best wishes

[Sarasometimes]

I'm with Lena and in a DADT so I look at these situations differently than the wide open members here. I like the comparison to when do you bring a new love to meet your family?
For the truth at all costs group, when do you mention these parts of you if they apply: bouts of depression, addiction in your family, number of past partners, drug experimentation, any brushes with the law, medical problems, habits, childhood trauma/abuse?
I think if things get serious after the next 6 months you should consider a talk but in the mean time you can explore her views on gender fluid people which could help you to decide if she is likely to accept those parts of you, which could sae both of you heart-ache.

Good Luck and don't beat yourself up for trusting your former spouse, that is on her!

[Tina81]

Ditto was DI says. I wasn't married at the time, but I experienced the same deception and deceit from a woman I was dating. Good Luck.