Stand up, Be proud! Fight for your rights, take a stand.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

It's way past time the CD community stood up and took responsibility for it's own acceptance. Not just piddly little university outreach here and there I'm talking major shit here.

I'm talking not hiding in the closets any more, whether personal ones, or larger ones.

I'm talking about not hiding from the SO's. It's frickin 2006 people and we've known for decades that hding is bad, but some of us still keep on doing it.

I'm talking about having enough pride to buy your makeup in the drugstores/chemist/M&S/Wal-Mart/Target/department stores like anyone else rather than paying a premium for overpriced stuff from some CD boutique. Same goes for clothing.

I'm talking about not making excuses while shopping or when someone asks why you shave your legs. No "it's for the wifey" no fake little shopping lists, no "I'm a bike rider"

I'm talking about being out in broad daylight rather than walking to the mailbox at midnight or just driving en femme without actually getting out of the car.

I'm talking about standing up against bigotry and standing up for yourself. If a group you're in is anti-TG, then for goddess sake quit and tell them why. If someone says a nasty slur, call them on it. If something gets printed in your local paper, write a rebuttal.

No ones going to hand you acceptance on a silver platter, you have to fight for it, work for it.

"But where I live (Texas/Arkansas/Rural Scotland) is full of rednecks and hooligans, Veronica"

Pooh on that, do something to change it. Stand together with likeminded people against them. Form alliances, speak out, embarass them, do whatever it takes to let them know that you will not tolerate bigotry. And no they won't beat you with a stick, that's hyperbole.

If there's not a group near you, form one. I'm trying to do that myself, it's hard, yes, but we have to do it.

And finally if someone asks you if you're a CD/TG, answer them simply and truthfully.


Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.
Yep, that's my name, it's pronounced Ron-duhl not Ron-dell.

[tvgirl4fun]

I've always said the best type of advocacy you can do is to go somewhere "dressed". And I mean, the regular (non LGBT) places and events, where you get to intermingle with the general public. Jaie

[~Kitty GG~]

Yesssssssssssss

That's what I've been saying!

When Blacks fought for their rights it wasn't only the ones in Washington and way up North where the climate was more Black friendly (as if there was anywhere friendly for them then..) If they'd have used the excuses I've heard here.. They'd still be in segregated schools and only the janitors in office buildings.

When people see the first few CDs or meet the first few TSs out and about they will probably stare. They will probably giggle. But that'll get old fast. If you see a couple a day its no longer a novelty. Its normal. And everyone is much too self-involved to really care what you're wearing once you're no longer a novelty.

Wouldn't be nice if SOs and children just thought it was normal?

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

[Sarah Rabbit]

Unfortunately arrogance is running rife in the community. My family knows about Sarah and that was a big step. You lead the charge Veronica and I'll be right behind you (Ducking the tomatoes)

Sarah R.

[Christina Nicole]

Go ahead. Some have much to gain and little to lose. Some have little to gain and much to lose. Falling in the latter category, I wish you well. Good luck!

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

[Toyah]

Go ahead. Some have much to gain and little to lose. Some have little to gain and much to lose. Falling in the latter category, I wish you well. Good luck!

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

With you all the way on this Christina Nicole.
I really dont get the we must make a stand thing, OK if you are TS you have a very fair point but if you are a guy in a dress it really is not a lifestyle thing its just a bit of fun and if it isnt then WTF you doing it for.
Its fun enjoy it but dont get carried away that everyone will say yes OK thats OK because they wont.
Take care where you go dont be confrontational, and if you are happy at home stay there its safe and not upsetting anyone

[Joy Carter]

The only bad part of a movement is that there will be bodies lying in a row, having been outed at work and having to retire early was not in my financial planning I fine but will have to stay in the work force longer that I would have. I'm willing to do what I can but not at the price of loosing.
0.02

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Go ahead. Some have much to gain and little to lose. Some have little to gain and much to lose. Falling in the latter category, I wish you well. Good luck!

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

What is more important than your freedom and dignity as a human being?


Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Unfortunately arrogance is running rife in the community. My family knows about Sarah and that was a big step. You lead the charge Veronica and I'll be right behind you (Ducking the tomatoes)

Sarah R.

No, don't wait for a leader, become one in yourself. Because leaders can't be everywhere and sometimes one must stand on their own.


Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[Karren H]

I guess if I was only thinking of myself I'd do exactually that. But guess what? I have a family that counts on me to provide for them! And I love them more than life it self. So by being selfish I could destroy the lives of my wife and kids? I think not! Family first and Karren is secondary !! So I wish you well in your idealistsic dream that your going to force everyone of accept your lifestyle!!

And BTW. I buy all my fem things locally and don't make excuses for my purchases, trying heels on while wearing a business suit, holding dresses up to check for length, trying on dress and skirt at lunch, plus shopping enfemme! But I don't see that as a big deal anyway. Its what I like to do!! And when I'm out enfemme and get read I could care less what other people think! I have the right to wear what I want. But I draw the line if it were to impact my famiyl!!


Love Karren

[VeronicaMoonlit]

VeronicaMoonlit,
What's with you and militancy?

You call this militancy? This is nothing. This is small beans compared to what other discriminated against people have done.

Do you ever smile and enjoy?

Yes, but sometimes action is needed.

"I'm talking about not hiding from the SO's. It's frickin 2006 people and we've known for decades that hding is bad, but some of us still keep on doing it." Do you have an SO? If so, have you made your stand?

Nope I'm single, but for damned sure I'm not going marry some socially conservative woman in hopes that living with her would cure me and then tell her after 30 years of marriage and then whine about how she's not accepting.

Any woman that I'll date will know by the third date. I can't hide the long hair, the earrings, the shaved body hair, the women's wristwach.

I did tell my mother, father and sister......14 years ago. I told my best friend and his wife about 5 years ago. I told my hair dresser. I've told many a shopgirl. and if anyone directly asks, I'll tell them too.

Girl, if you want to be the Susan B. Anthony of crossdressing, I say go for it!

There already was a Susan B Anthony, depending on who you ask it's either Magnus Hirshfield or Virginia Prince.


Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

With you all the way on this Christina Nicole.
I really dont get the we must make a stand thing, OK if you are TS you have a very fair point but if you are a guy in a dress it really is not a lifestyle thing its just a bit of fun and if it isnt then WTF you doing it for.

Peter Oiler. Google it.

Do you want to be fired for CDing at home? No? Then don't you want laws protecting your civil rights? Yes? Then you've got to fight for them. Now you may be thinking, "I'll just stay very deep in my closet, no one will know."

Is that good for your mental health to do that?
Is that good for CD's as a whole to do that?

Take care where you go dont be confrontational, and if you are happy at home stay there its safe and not upsetting anyone

That's the problem with the past generations of CD's concentrating on being safe in their closets. Don't you want things to be better? Don't you want the next generation to have it easier than we did? Something has to be done.


Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

The only bad part of a movement is that there will be bodies lying in a row, having been outed at work and having to retire early was not in my financial planning I fine but will have to stay in the work force longer that I would have. I'm willing to do what I can but not at the price of loosing.
0.02

So? Why aren't you fighting for legal protections in the workplace for TG/CD people. With those you wouldn't have to worry about your livelyhood.


Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[JMO2]

OK, lets think about this logically,
1. Tomorrow I will wake up and put on whatever I want.
1. My SO all but sends me to the lions.....
2. I go out and go into a local store.
2. Being in a small town they think I have gone insane and the guys in the store want to kill me.
3. I decide to go to work dressed.
3. I am fired from my job and all but put out on the street.
Now, I am a closet crossdresser and do not intend to even think about some of the items mentioned. Good in theory but in real life....give me a break.......

(I do not mean to put anyone down just stating my opinion, sorry if I have offended anyone)

[VeronicaMoonlit]

I guess if I was only thinking of myself I'd do exactually that. But guess what? I have a family that counts on me to provide for them! And I love them more than life it self. So by being selfish I could destroy the lives of my wife and kids? I think not! Family first and Karren is secondary !! So I wish you well in your idealistsic dream that your going to force everyone of accept your lifestyle!!

Excuse me, but aren't you the Karen Hutton who crossdresses at work in the bathroom? Are you thinking about your wife and kids when you do that? Aren't you the one that went from clear mascara to brown at work? The one whom it seems wants to get caught at work?

It's not my lifestyle, it's who I am, it's who you are too.

But I draw the line if it were to impact my famiyl!!

yes, but if there were laws protecting TG/CD folk then you wouldn't have to worry would you? So why don't you fight for such laws.


Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[maid phylis]

It's way past time the CD community stood up and took responsibility for it's own acceptance. Not just piddly little university outreach here and there I'm talking major shit here.

I'm talking not hiding in the closets any more, whether personal ones, or larger ones.

I'm talking about not hiding from the SO's. It's frickin 2006 people and we've known for decades that hding is bad, but some of us still keep on doing it.

I'm talking about having enough pride to buy your makeup in the drugstores/chemist/M&S/Wal-Mart/Target/department stores like anyone else rather than paying a premium for overpriced stuff from some CD boutique. Same goes for clothing.

I'm talking about not making excuses while shopping or when someone asks why you shave your legs. No "it's for the wifey" no fake little shopping lists, no "I'm a bike rider"

I'm talking about being out in broad daylight rather than walking to the mailbox at midnight or just driving en femme without actually getting out of the car.

I'm talking about standing up against bigotry and standing up for yourself. If a group you're in is anti-TG, then for goddess sake quit and tell them why. If someone says a nasty slur, call them on it. If something gets printed in your local paper, write a rebuttal.

No ones going to hand you acceptance on a silver platter, you have to fight for it, work for it.

"But where I live (Texas/Arkansas/Rural Scotland) is full of rednecks and hooligans, Veronica"

Pooh on that, do something to change it. Stand together with likeminded people against them. Form alliances, speak out, embarass them, do whatever it takes to let them know that you will not tolerate bigotry. And no they won't beat you with a stick, that's hyperbole.

If there's not a group near you, form one. I'm trying to do that myself, it's hard, yes, but we have to do it.

And finally if someone asks you if you're a CD/TG, answer them simply and truthfully.


Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.
Yep, that's my name, it's pronounced Ron-duhl not Ron-dell.

i agree with you 100% you go girl.love phylisanne

[Christina Nicole]

I really dont get the we must make a stand thing, OK if you are TS you have a very fair point but if you are a guy in a dress it really is not a lifestyle thing its just a bit of fun and if it isnt then WTF you doing it for.

Well, that depends. Two TS sisters I know well. One is entirely passable, the other is totally non-passable as women. The first is married, raising her adopted children and other than her immediate family, no one knows her past. The other one is out as a TS and an advocate. I know a lot of "stealth" TSs. Once they transistion, no one knows and they don't say anything. Life for them, is much easier that way. They just want to be women, they don't want to be warrior women.

What is more important than your freedom and dignity as a human being?

Exactly my point. Being TG ranks pretty far down the list for me. Husband, etc are far more important. Earning a good living to support my family well is more important. Freedom and dignity are measured and gauged differently by each and every person. Being labeled as a "crossdresser" while "fighting for my rights" would not enhance my freedom or dignity. What it would do is exactly the opposite. It would restrict my freedom, wear down my dignity, decrease my earnings, and erode the respect I've worked long and hard to earn from my peers and clients (no to mention friends, family, and neighbors.) There would be little gains in compensation in return. I have no interest in running around as a guy in a dress.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

[kaitlin]

Hello, I have read this (these) posts and I agree and disagree. I would love to be able to dress and act the way my heart desires anywhere and at any time but...I can remember a time when I would have joined in kicking a gay or crossdressed person. Now I am happy to say I am above that and I AM A CD! I also have many gay and TG/CD friends and love them all. But I also know that the stories of bodys being found on the side of the road and people who just become "missing" are true and no matter how much you push, someone will there to push back! Times will change and we will just have to enjoy what we have and let things take there natural course. Kaitlin

[~Dee~]

I think its a good idea and you obviously have a lot of conviction driving you.

Personally i dont quite get the people who seem to think you need some kind of reality check ...
afterall .. how could you possibly think that the world would accept you .. why, you'd be fired from your job, kicked out of house and tossed to the curb.

but ... umm, you do know that there are people who are currently living this life?
i mean .. im not fulltime yet .. but everyone in my world knows about me and ive not been tossed to the curb ..
i have a wonderful marriage .. my whole school (students, teachers and office workers) are rooting for me and ask for reports each time i see them .. i do dress when i go to work, and nobody has ever said anything bad in the slightest.

so ... before conclussions are jumped to .. i think its worth remembering that there are lots of people who are living this life with pride and im pretty sure they are happy with it.
i know i am..

ill be there in that picket line so count me in.

[Sophia Rearen]

[SIZE="3"]Wow, good debate you've started, Veronica. Thank you. The times, they are a changing. Can we not see it, because we are so close to it? Veronica is pushing for overdrive. Nothing wrong with that. Karren, may be in forth gear. Nothing wrong with that. The closet crossdresser is in first. Again, nothing wrong. I, myself, may be in fourth and about to shift to fifth. The rest of us fall somewhere between first and fifth. The important thing is, we don't find reverse.[/SIZE]

[Marla S]

What is more important than your freedom and dignity as a human being?

Freedom and dignity. And I'd like to add peace, health, family and friends.
It is a pity that these things often don't fit together.

You call this militancy? This is nothing. This is small beans compared to what other discriminated against people have done.

... and still do. It is a legend, that racism has died out; it's a legend that homosexuality is widly accepted. Maybe it is not PC anymore to be intolerant in some countries (areas, districts), but the vast majority of the people still is.

Only because you have a black secretary of state doesn't mean that blacks, whites and other etnic groups are treated equalliy ... you should know.

So, a CD-revolution is a romantic dream IMHO, as it is a dream that all homosexuals would stand up against intolerance (a minority does).

Go the slow way and the one that is approriate for you.
A little bit more boldness couldn't harm, though.

[Kate Simmons]

I understand what you are saying Veronica and agree with you. There is just one problem here--people. I was a member of Renaissance but left after a few years as they were moving too slow for me. Most of them are content with having "tea parties", talking about wigs and makeup going to Southern Comfort and the whole "nine yards". A big thing where I'm from is the Pride Parade in Allentown PA coming up this month. Getting them to agree on something in principle is one thing, getting them to follow through is something entirely different. My home was open all Winter for any girls who wanted to visit, I got a total of 3 maybe. You have to realize that most people are dedicated to their familiy and when things come up, fail to that. I can't blame them really, frustration of not being able to be your femme self notwithstanding. I, like yourself , attempted to start a local group but the interest and committment just wasn't there. I really can't fault people for that as most are closeted anyway, I have to respect that in others, as I myself was basically closeted for 54 years. In my dotage(!), I finally got some gonads to just be myself but have learned rather sadly perhaps, I have to "fly" or "fall" on my own. What you say is attractive but really seemingly unattainable to most and a "dream" at best. I, personally, don't care what people think of me as I have to be myself. I do care about my family, however, and have to care about their feelings somewhat whether I like it or not. That doesn't mean I'm going back to the closet, no way! What is does mean is that I take things a day at a time. I've earned whatever freedom of expression I have as Ericka by myself. I paid for it with my sweat and tears and cherish it. From my perspective however, it seems to be an up hill battle and if you don't take the "bull by the horns" youself, no one is going to do it for you. I've learned the value of putting forth an effort but the committment needs to be put forth by each one individually, otherwise your triumph has no meaning and you are riding on the coattails of someone else's accomplishments. I'm really hoping things will turn around for the TG community and time will tell. Until that time, we have to make or break it on our own more or less. I love all my brothers and sisters on the forum here regardless. It makes things a little easier to "swallow" when you can talk to friends about things. Take care, Ericka

[Ms. Donna]

I think that people are not getting the bigger picture here.

This is not about rights for crossdressers - nor is it about rights for the Transgendered.

This is about the right for anyone to be who they are without the fear of persecution and ridicule. This is about the right to not be told who we are by those other than ourselves.

If you don't want to be out, then don't. But do not oppose those who are and want to be recognised for who we are, and not who others thing we should be.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[Maria D]

It's not really the bad things that hold people back, it's the fear of the bad things. You can't be sure you'll lose your job, your wife and kids, your friends, and then be tied to a tree upside down and taunted with ice cream, can you? But the fear that it might happen stops enough people to keep CDs a visible minority. WE know there are trillions of CDs, and a CD army could take the world if it chose, but most people never see a CD in their life. How can the invisible want rights or to be accepted?

I'm no warrior princess, it was 25 years before I got the courage to tell even one person, let alone a website like this. But since then, as I've discovered that the world doesn't hate me, it got easier. I am quite happy being a visible TS, not just to further the cause and stuff, but because it suits me as a person to keep my history.
The point is though, that I project an awareness field to the people who know me; hundreds of people, literally, who'd never seen a TG person before, have now done so, and been made aware that they are not freaks but normal people. It's a small field, but the more people who are made aware of the issue, the better.
I'm not afraid anymore, that's the thing. That doesn't mean that there's nothing to be afraid of, I know of a council worker who was fired last year for being CD, using another reason for the sacking, but the point is you have to fight this, with every last drop of blood, if you want the future to be better. If you are happy with your lot and wish Veronica to shut up, fair enuogh. There were probably plenty of black people who wanted Marten Luther King to shut up and stop rocking the boat. That's fair enough; it just means that they'd give to their children what they suffered. MLK gave them something better.

Just my thoughts anyway

[Marla S]

This is about the right for anyone to be who they are without the fear of persecution and ridicule. This is about the right to not be told who we are by those other than ourselves.

Broadly speaking, this right is an illusion.

There are islands of acceptance which you can try to expand.