Are We Deceiving Ourselves? Or "Quid Est Veritas?"

[RobynP]

Thank you all for your comments! Let me clarify what I am trying to say and what I am not saying:

1. It is not a question of whether or not society approves of it or not or if we feel like we are going against society's rules. It is not a question if it is "good" or "bad".
2. It is not a question of whether the roots of crossdressing are biological or environmental or both or neither.
3. It is not a question of whether or not it is pleasurable.
4. It is not a question whether or not it is sexual in nature.
5. It is not a question of being normal or not normal.
6. I am not saying that it is or might be an addiction for all crossdressers. We each have our own reasons for doing what we do when we do it.
7. If it is an addiction, is it truly less destructive than alcohol or a gambling addiction? There are a many divorces and breakups because of it. There are many marriages where it is just tolerated. There have been postings by people on this board who are purging and going away in an attempt to repair their relationships.

The question is: Can I give up crossdressing, walk away from it, give away or throw away everything today, never desire it again, never crossdress again?

I am not saying that one should, or why would someone give up something they enjoy doing. The question is if you can walk away from crossdressing and not look back.

What this comes down to, at least for me, is a question about control. Do I have control over myself? Looking back over my life, I can honestly say that I do not have control over myself. The crossdressing controls me. And if I have no control over myself, how can I give myself totally to another person in a relationship? I don't think I can...

For myself, I am not sure where I am going with all of this... If I think that this is an "addiction" for me, I suppose I have to give up the desire to be in a relationship or at least make it a very low priority in my life. But if I want to start actively dataing again, then I need to figure out a way to regain control of myself. And as the saying goes, "There's no cure for crossdressing..."

--Robyn

[Rebecca_Annette]

I'm not sure about addiction/obssession, when my first wife (who more or less introduced me to crossdressing) both accepted and encouraged I found that though I liked to dress I could live without it, when she decided that my crossdressing made her 'feel like a lesbian' and she desposed of all my female clothing (all of which she had purchased) I found it very difficult for a long time to 'live without it'.

The desire to crossdress never went away.

When she and I seperated I thought hard and long about buying and (occasionally) wearing female clothes. The only thing that stopped me was the fear of discovery (where I lived there was very little opportunity for privacy).


Still the desire did not leave me.

When I eventually summoned the courage to tell my current partner, she was both accepting and supportive, she was actually very encouraging and helpful. During that period I also felt no really strong urge to dress. I could dress as and when I wished to, we could sit and talk, or watch TV or share a bottle of wine together whatever I was wearing.

Then she too told me she was very uncomfortable with me, that she could continue to accept my 'little hobby', but no longer participate or share in it. I can understand her reasoning.

But, since that time, from having a relaxed attitude towards it, I find now that I don a dress or skirt at every available opportunity.

I wonder if the acceptance/rejection have any relationship to the strength of desire?

Peace
Rebecca

[Salina]

The question is: Can I give up crossdressing, walk away from it, give away or throw away everything today, never desire it again, never crossdress again?
--Robyn

I believe given the right set of circumstances I could do everything but never desire it again. I have experience with addiction as I'm a recovering druggie and alkie..12+ years clean. I was addicted for 20+ years. Walking away from that the most difficult thing I've ever done. It required support and counseling, making significant changes in the way I thought, behaved, and responded to adversity. After all this time I still have moments where I desire
that drink or drug, though I know what to do when it hits me.

Today, I have no intention of ever giving up CDing, but given the right (or wrong) situation (Holly's comes to mind) I do believe I could give it up if it were forced on me. I don't believe the desire would ever leave me though.

[Marla S]

I am not saying that one should, or why would someone give up something they enjoy doing. The question is if you can walk away from crossdressing and not look back.

No, I am convinced it is not possible.
There might be some exception of the rule, which is hard to tell, because you won't find them on forums like this and you don't recognize an ex-crossdresser.
But shouldn't there be some articles or books by ex-cders, like there is lots of stuff to find from ex-smokers or ex alcoholics ?
"Ten steps to stop crossdressing" or something like this.

What this comes down to, at least for me, is a question about control. Do I have control over myself? Looking back over my life, I can honestly say that I do not have control over myself. The crossdressing controls me. And if I have no control over myself, how can I give myself totally to another person in a relationship? I don't think I can...

That's an very important point. We seem not to have control over it.
That is indeed scary for a being that thinks to have a free will.

What other things we don't have control over and can't give up?
Breathing, eating, drinking, sexuality, need for happiness, need for social contacts, need for acceptance, need fo contentedness, need to learn, need to explore, need to move.
There are other needs we usually don't think of i. e. the need for nature (astronauts become depressive or agressive if they don't have plants to care for on a long time space trip).
The question is: Does the need to express feminine (or masculine) falls within this category ?
I'd say its likely, because the need to express ones personality/individuality is a basic need too and if this is somehow feminine you are there.

We basically don't have control over all the mentioned things, but we do have some control how we deal with it. We can eat more healty or not, we might need only one or two good friends or need to have a crowd of people around us, we might be interested in sciences or philosophie etc.

So, from my point of view expressing feminine is a basic need we can't control in general, but we have control how we express it (closet or not, sexy or casual, blending in or standing out, part time or full time etc.)

The other way round, wouldn't a non-cding man become ill sooner or later if he wouldn't be allowed to express masculine, but had to present feminine hole the time ? Wouldn't he show the same episodes of compulsive behavior if he gets the slightest chance to wear a suit instead of a dress ?
Is he addicted to be masculine ?
Could he give up being masculine ?
Does he has control over it ?

[Trinni]

The question is: Can I give up crossdressing, walk away from it, give away or throw away everything today, never desire it again, never crossdress again?
--Robyn

First of all I want to say you brought up a very thoughtful post. I had to think about it awhile before I could respond because to me it is a very deep question. For the answer to your question, unfortunatly only you can answer it. Everyone has there own reasons for crossdressing, even though there probably are a lot of simarlarities among us, the answer has to come from your head and heart.

As for me, the reason I feel this is a deep question is because I have had thoughs on the same pattern as you. I have been into womens clothes and the curiousity about women since I was very young. I also do not want to be dressed 24/7 and go in waves where I want to dress and times I don't. What has made me think about it is I have had times where I have actually put important things off because I knew I only had a short window of oppurtunity to dress. I took the time to dress and enjoy while I didn't do what I should be doing. Now don't get me wrong, I didn't let my child starve or anything which would ruin anyones life, but I knew in my heart this is not how I should be spending my time. I knew if I didn't dress then, I might get another chance for awhile. On the other hand, I have had tons of times when I had the chance and didn't feel like dressing.

I guess I have not answered your question at all but I felt I had to respond because the thought has also crossed my mind. I know it is not the same physical feeling I have had when I have quit other addictions. I have quit smoking cigarette and after years I once and a while will smoke a cigar. I do know if I smoked one more cigarette though, I will be back to a pack a day with in a week.

Sorry if I didn't answer your question but thank you for the thread because I didn't know it was on other peeples mind. I guess thats why I love this board.

[Miss Terr]

The question is: Can I give up crossdressing, walk away from it, give away or throw away everything today, never desire it again, never crossdress again?
Robyn

You CAN do this:give up crossdressing, walk away from it, give away or throw away everything today, never crossdress again.

You CAN'T do this: never desire it again. (at least not without some serious incapacitating meds)

It is a part of you, and since you have researched this in the past it is truly classified by the Psych. community as a disorder namley Paraphillias (for CD/TV) and a gender ID disorder for TS/TG.

"Teatment prognosis is poor for those with early age onset, high fequency of acts, no guilt or shame about the act, and associated w/ alchol drug abuse."
"Prognosis is better for those with a history of coitus in addition to the act, high motivation for change, and a self-referred patient."
*Synopsis of psychology 1991

The key to the above, is if it causes a disturbance in ones life and is distressing they should seek help. (But that goes for anything, not just CD/TV)

Addiction is a completley different disorder and is treated as such.

I am not saying that one should, or why would someone give up something they enjoy doing. The question is if you can walk away from crossdressing and not look back.
Robyn

This is complete fantasy on my part but if there was a magic pill(s),
One that completely removes the desire.
One that helps make the transformation complete
or take none of the above.
I probably would not take either.
Because there are benefits to our "condition" alot of SOs dont realize.
There are alot of men who ignore them, plop down on the couch w/ remote in hand, drink too much, not care about their appearance, into porn, drink too much, gamble, cheat, etc etc etc. Things that don't afflict the CD community as often. Its always a trade off, show me the perfect spouse....?

For myself, I am not sure where I am going with all of this... If I think that this is an "addiction" for me, I suppose I have to give up the desire to be in a relationship or at least make it a very low priority in my life. But if I want to start actively dataing again, then I need to figure out a way to regain control of myself. And as the saying goes, "There's no cure for crossdressing..."
--Robyn

To successfully quit anything:
It is only a problem if it is a problem to the indivdual. It doesn't matter wat friends or family say if someone doesn't desire to stop it will just continue more insidiously.
Best wishes in sorting out, your situation.

PS Also to answer a point that it is less of a problem than alcohol or gambling I still maintain that it is.
Because a CD/TV can be accepted and nurtured by the SO and live life to the fullest and happily.
Not so with alcohol, drugs, gambling(Unless you are Bill Gates). The first 2 lead to death and the other to bankrupcy.

[Lovely Rita]

I appreciated reading your thread. Our experiences are very different in that I have a very supportive SO. Many of us can relate to your thread on many levels.

I feel my cross dressing can become an obsession if I do not show self control. It is only a problem if it affects the quality of my life and my SO's. If my work or responsibilities suffered because of it then we have a problem.

Balance, everything in life is about balance. For some CDs being en femme 7 24 is alright and works and they are fine with it. For others CDing creates havoc and a myriad of guilt feelings and then the purging starts, which I have also gone through but thank God today I feel whole and at peace with who God made me. In His likeness.

"pappa don't preach"


thanks for letting me share and I guess the answer is yes and know


hugs

[Marla S]

It is a part of you, and since you have researched this in the past it is truly classified by the Psych. community as a disorder namley Paraphillias (for CD/TV) and a gender ID disorder for TS/TG.

"Teatment prognosis is poor for those with early age onset, high fequency of acts, no guilt or shame about the act, and associated w/ alchol drug abuse."
"Prognosis is better for those with a history of coitus in addition to the act, high motivation for change, and a self-referred patient."
*Synopsis of psychology 1991

I'd say in the fast developing field of gender studies (not only there) a source from 1991 bearing the knowlage from about 1985 isn't something we should pay to much attention too. It's just outdated.
20 years are ages for sciences.

[Miss Terr]

I'd say in the fast developing field of gender studies (not only there) a source from 1991 bearing the knowlage from about 1985 isn't something we should pay to much attention too. It's just outdated.
20 years are ages for sciences.

I agree about sciences, but disagree because the segment posted is still relevant today.

[Angela E.]

But,why would I want to?-Angela. :GE:

[Marla S]

I agree about sciences, but disagree because the segment posted is still relevant today.

Relevant for whom ? Ordinary psychologist or gender psychologist.
For the latter I have a differnt impression.
For myself I'd probably fall in both categories: early age onset, intense shame and guilt, no alcohol, temporarily a high motivation of change, I consider myself self-referred.
What's the result ? I dress more than ever, less sexual driven though, and enjoy it more than ever.
Quality of life increased this way, though there a serious social drawbacks.

[Miss Terr]

Relevant for whom ? Ordinary psychologist or gender psychologist.
For the latter I have a differnt impression.
For myself I'd probably fall in both categories: early age onset, intense shame and guilt, no alcohol, temporarily a high motivation of change, I consider myself self-referred.
What's the result ? I dress more than ever, less sexual driven though, and enjoy it more than ever.
Quality of life increased this way, though there a serious social drawbacks.

Are you trying to stop?

[ReginaK]

"We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it’s fun, and with awareness. But then, it’s not self-deceit!"

[FROCKYHORROR]

Being open and honest unfortunately means risking "everything" and then perhaps ending up on your own...I can relate to and understand the revultion any person or partner would feel on such knowledge...but for some reason its not enough to stop us...because at some level to what ever degree we secretly wish we were real females...and that subconsious thought is allways with us...I have tried stopping, i can go without it for quite a while,happily getting on with male things..then out of the blue..."Help me mommy ..wow..Here it comes again.."..and just when i think i'm ready for a relationship..

[Marla S]

Are you trying to stop?

Not anymore. In the past I have purged 2 or 3 times, another two or three times I put everything in a box in the cellar (I learned ). In the more sexual times (adolescence) I even tried to achieve a "reconditioning" myself.
Now I try to integrate it into my life, by showing all the time that there is something "different" but don't force the impression of a woman.
I. e. my family, friends, counsellor (we never spoke about CDing) have seen me with makeup, nailpolish, or wearing thights (an over all feminized style), none has seen me in a skirt or high heels. I never spoke about it though (I see no need to, cause I would not speak about not wearing makeup or wearing a suit).
My main problem is how to deal with it in finding a job (need to) and the fact that finding a new partner doesn't become more easy if you are a CD.
But that's about it.
For a job I probably would need to deny it, but that's not a wish to stop it, but rather a forced self-punishment in order to adapt to the social norms (they are more restrictive in business) - kind of prostitution.

The only "disorder" I feel to have right now is that I spend way too much time on this forum and think way too much about the Whys, Whats, Hows, benfits and drawbacks of CDing. That indeed hinders me a bit to get the jobs done (an addiction).
On the other side this is a way of self-reflection you maybe only will get in a cloister otherwise.