make up too ugly?

[Stephenie S]

Well noname,

I actually waded through all those studies you referred to. This is a case of science triumphing over common sense. It seems to indicate that women are more violent than men, and yet we all know this to be untrue. When was the last time a woman kidnaped a school full of children, let the girls go and then tied up and murdered all the boys? When was the last murder and rape of a young man by a woman in your city? Just the oposite happened here recently. Women are afraid to walk alone at night. Why? If your assumption was true, why is it that the VAST majority of murders and rapes occur against women. Are women killing other women? No, men kill women. And beat women severely, and threaten women with violence. Those studies relate violent behavior but do not define what the violence consisted of. Reading between the lines it is obvious that slapping, throwing things, punching, are all defined as violence. These acts, when perpetrated against men leave little impact. When, on the other hand, they are perpetrated against women, a mans vastly superior strength and fighting ability do significant damage to women. Often common sense is lost when statistics are used to prove a point held by a single point of view. The fact remains in all of this that men are stronger, bigger, taller, more skilled at damaging an opponent, and often reluctant to hit a woman. Women know this, and so do you. There is no question that women come out on the short end of the stick when it comes to physical violence between the sexes. Are you afraid of getting attacked by a women when you venture out alone at night? No, you are not. And for good reason. Women just don't do this. But men do. If you are afraid to walk alone, you are afraid of other men, not of a woman.

Sorry, but your argument just doesn't hold water.

Stephenie

[great gg]

Well noname,

I actually waded through all those studies you referred to. This is a case of science triumphing over common sense. It seems to indicate that women are more violent than men, and yet we all know this to be untrue. When was the last time a woman kidnaped a school full of children, let the girls go and then tied up and murdered all the boys? When was the last murder and rape of a young man by a woman in your city? Just the oposite happened here recently. Women are afraid to walk alone at night. Why? If your assumption was true, why is it that the VAST majority of murders and rapes occur against women. Are women killing other women? No, men kill women. And beat women severely, and threaten women with violence. Those studies relate violent behavior but do not define what the violence consisted of. Reading between the lines it is obvious that slapping, throwing things, punching, are all defined as violence. These acts, when perpetrated against men leave little impact. When, on the other hand, they are perpetrated against women, a mans vastly superior strength and fighting ability do significant damage to women. Often common sense is lost when statistics are used to prove a point held by a single point of view. The fact remains in all of this that men are stronger, bigger, taller, more skilled at damaging an opponet, and often reluctant to hit a woman. Women know this, and so do you. There is no question that women come out on the short end of the stick when it comes to physical violence between the sexes. Are you afraid of getting attacked by a women when you venture out alone at night? No, you are not. And for good reason. Women just don't do this. But men do. If you are afraid to walk alone, you are afraid of other men, not of a woman.

Sorry, but your argument just doesn't hold water.

Stephenie

Thank you so much, Stephenie, for demonstrating that we, regardless of gender bias and issues, can actually use common sense and understand the distincitons based on reality. It has been an intereisting thread to follow, if only to determine that a closed system stays closed in order to protect itself. what would it mean if noname had to give up believing that gg's have it so darn good and that he should be treated the same as we are? want to be one of the targets? In one of my sermons, I talked about domestic violence from a personal experience I had with one of my parishioners. And, I asked, how can any of you men out there be afraid of a 5'\4 inchwoman? what makes me so scary? when I leave this building as the last one out at night, I immeidately revert to being just a female target for some crazy a** guy with a grudge against some female who done him wrong and I would be a great target to pay for it. that is a reality. tell me nomane or any other male is afrait to walk out any door at night because of what's between his/her legs? Outside of cds, gays or lesbians who are also "hated" by the big macho real men? and also, of course, by many women. but I dont' remember Matthew Shepherd being killed by a couple of women. As I recall, it was two guys who took him from the club and left him to die on a fence. so boo hoo for sales clerks who don't offer men lipsticks.

[DanaJ]

Sorry if this is off topic from the original topic of the thread, but.....

There are MANY cases of abuse of women against men, to try to rationalize it away is doing a real disservice to abused people anywhere! I did a quickie web search and found thousands of good reliable reports of this type of abuse.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=dom...p=mss&ei=UTF-8

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

try B'Q no-name , they hire cement mixers by the hour !! i seriously think you are jealous of GG'S . if u took ur time and read thru posts, ud see how many c/d in here ask nicely for our advice/help. they very rarely critize and make sarcastic comments about ourselves. remeber beauty is skin deep, its the person inside that matters. if ur not happy within, ur pretty well not happy on the outside

[JulieCDorlando]

Hello,
I believe that when it comes to respecting one another, the way that respect is earned is when respect is given. Give to others and it will be returned to you so to speak. Being respectful is part of the golden rule "do unto others...........". In this day and age respect doesn't appear to be at the fore front of proper manners as were taught to all of us as children, or perhaps those same manners were not even taught during thier adolesence to some?
The attitude of today's world is all about selfishness The "what is in it for me?" attitude is prevalant. There are some or very few people that despite their socio- economic status, sexual oreintation, religious beliefs, race, and gender that actually do go out of their way to be kind to others. Sadly though that kind of attitude is frowned upon by a majority in society today. By far I am of the belief that women (GG) as a whole are the most compassionate ones in society, women are generally more repsectful, more giving, more considerate, more nurturing than any other group. Those qualities are considered weak and/or inferior by this male dominated society all of us live in. If a man displays those very same qualities thier male counterparts look down upon them as being to effeminate.
If you Noname are upset about inequality at a make up counter, then don't assume the ladies at the make up counter will want you to try the newest shade of lipstick. Most men will give her such a sharp, and undignified remark in return. Men in general DO NOT use make up. Society dictates that. That is why us M2F CD's are lost in this area.Yes other shoppers will stare at you, but so what if they stare? Women were looked down on when they fought for their rights a mere few years ago.They took a gigantic leap by shucking the rules of a male dominated society and exerted themselves to become equal. Even still women (GG) have a ways to go to be considered in all aspects of this society. Man up and go to a counter and seek assistance. You might be surprised at how acceptedyou will be there. If there is something you dislike, then do something to change it. Dont blast the women because of what you view is unequal. Heaven knows the women have been caught on the short end of the stick in all aspects of society since time has begun.

[AngGG]

Origonally it was a joke between my wife and I. Sorry mam, your too ugly for makeup. Of course I do more than my fair share of complaining. Perhaps I just think too much. I guess I have a couple of points. One, makeup can't look that bad on guys. Two, it's unlikely genetics determine if one likes makeup or not. Third, I'm complaining a bit. I guess all I want is to be respected the same respect women are. Women are not looked down on for wearing makeup, so why should I. People just assume a women wears makeup because she likes the color/look whatever. Why can't they make that same assumption for me?



If I see samples handed out I usually make a point to get one. For instance, when waking through the store and they hand the wife one and not me, I usually ask, why didn't you give me a sample? They usually say it's for women, to which my responce is, What? I'm not good enough?

Here I go again I will probably get the riot act again for comparing cding to fishing but well it is a relavent example for me. My dh and I go to a fishing/boating show. I LOVE to fish and am looking for stuff for MYSELF. 9 times out of 10 the sales people totally ignore me because I am a woman and fishing is done predominately by men. I have been to places looking at stuff, no sales person approached me but a man walked into the booth and they magically appeared.

Here's another...I was in sears looking at a lawnmower. There were 3 or 4 salespeople just standing around the register chatting. They clearly saw me looking, they chose not to help me because I am a woman...how do I know this you ask? Well a man walked into the same area I was in and again immediately one of the sales people came up to the man asked him what he was looking for and if he could help him in any way.

Like you and the make-up samples, I was looked over as a possible sale because of my gender...is it right? NO!!! Does it happen? Of course it does.

What I do in the case of the fishing stuff is buy from someone who sees me as a potential customer and treats me with the respect I deserve.

At sears I found the manager for the department and let him know that he just lost a 400.00 sale because I was in the market to buy a lawn mower and planned on purchasing it that night at his store, but because of the lack of attention and ignorance of his sales staff I would now take my business elsewhere.

The way I see it is you can either 1) stand up for yourself and get what you want in life or 2 ) you can sit back and whine about how the world is doing you wrong and do nothing about it. Your choice.

And your "sorry maam your too ugly for makeup" comment is just rude and insensitive. Tell me are you maybe transfering your own insecurities with your looks onto everyone else to make yourself feel better....you could dispel that theory by posting that pic...

Ang.

[Billie Jean]

don't do the web stats as general rule, because for every one that says that women are more aggressive there are countless others, including the national institute of health that debunk that. so, no arguement about treating others with respect. our culture treats men like men and women like women. how they present. we are not yet at the point where everyone is treated with respect.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query

This is true. But men being men don't report the violence against them by women as much because of the chance of being ridiculed. Billie Jean

[Sheila]

If you look that good why not post a pic.

AND PLEASE STOP DISCUSSING ME IN PUBLIC

[ReginaK]

"Noname" does the phrase "Take a chill pill" mean anything to you? and oh by the way there is no such thing as an ugly woman! some are just less beautiful than others but ALL are lovely. Then theres my wife...drop dead goorgeous!

I dunno about that. I'm no VS model myself, but i've come across a few women who could make a train take a dirt road. But of course, there is always inner beauty...

As far not being offered make up and being stared at while shopping, chalk it up to institutionalized sexism. Women get treated like crap when they go to buy cars, so consider this their payback..

[noname]

As far not being offered make up and being stared at while shopping, chalk it up to institutionalized sexism. Women get treated like crap when they go to buy cars, so consider this their payback..

Like the time my wife and I took her car ( well ours but she drives it ) in. The service guys immediately tried to talk to me about. I in turn just pointed to my wife. So yeah, not all things equal, but let me ask, do women get nasty stares, lose friends or possibly a spouse because they wish to drive a car? Don't get me wrong I know what your saying. It's one of those things call a preconcieved idea.

[ReginaK]

Like the time my wife and I took her car ( well ours but she drives it ) in. The service guys immediately tried to talk to me about. I in turn just pointed to my wife. So yeah, not all things equal, but let me ask, do women get nasty stares, lose friends or possibly a spouse because they wish to drive a car? Don't get me wrong I know what your saying. It's one of those things call a preconcieved idea.

You make an interesting point. It's not really fair, is it?

The best we can do is work to change it. Next time you get one of those nasty stares, call that person out. And if you lose a friend or spouse, show them the way to the door and tell them to not let the knob hit'em where the good lord split'em. Start showing those people you refuse to accept their behavior and they'll either change it or get left behind.

[Susan Johnson]

Can't say I've had any makeup problems because unless my wife is buying for me I tend to pick up the odd item in the supermarket which could be for my wife and avoid the big makeup counters in department stores. As to violence, having had 30 years in the law enforcement business, I would say that it is predominantly male violence against females, I would think in the ratio 99 - 1 female attack on a male. Females are sometimes attacked by other females but that is often a dispute over boyfriends/husbands. I did once deal with a female who complained of assault by her husband, she was unmarked and he looked like he had been run over by a bus. Unprovoked attacks by males on either females or other males are far more common than attacks by females. Attacks by females on males from my observations usually have some background to them in that they know each other and the male has upset the female at some earlier time and she siezes the moment to get her revenge.
Susan

[Rachael Turner]

As I have an appointment to soon get a make over. I was thinking about how a guy can walk through the cosmetics yet is never given a hello, or sample of xyz. I'm sure after getting a makeover some people will stare at me, heck I'll probably get stares sitting there, then I thought...

Why don't women get stares, or odd looks when they shop for cosmetics. Let's be real here, there are some pretty ugly women out there. Ugly women aren't ignored browsing at cosmetics. And not matter how ugly they are, they don't get odd looks.

Can you imagine some women at cosmetic counter getting a "sorry mam, no cosmetics will work for you, your too ugly." Ok not that blunt but, let's face it, no matter how ugly she is, she will get all the help she needs. Heck, I can't look that bad in makeup, cause there are some real ugly women out there.

I walked into an estee lauder store, asked for assistance and a really friendly GG (early 30's) found my correct coloring, got me a great coverage stain based makeup, loose powder and a moisturizer base. Not only did she make a $120 sale but she got a $10.00 tip. Aside from the knee jerk reaction to a guy asking for makeup assistance, the girls were more than accomodating.