Bi when dressed

[windycissy]

However, I do have one question to ask you before I bid you a fond farewell...
On your website, you state -"I am not looking for male companionship!"
Then earlier in this very thread you state - "when I'm dressed and with Mr. Right, I feel very affectionate towards him and doing physical stuff seems kinda natural".
Is this meant to be deliberately confusing??
Or is this just one of those things that makes a person say...Hmmmmmmmm???

Get a life! My lame little website was put together long before I met Mr. Right. In my very first post about dating him, I admitted that "never in a million years did I think this would happen"...I guess I am evolving, and if you think you're confused, that makes two of us....Cissy

[Rachel Ann]

WC, I don't really think there's much point to continue posting in this thread. It's simply not worth it. … My opinion? I think it would be best if this thread were locked.

Just because you don’t want to talk about it any more doesn’t mean it should be locked. Many have poured their hearts out about this and lots of posts were made in a short time. So it’s about a lot more than your argument with Windy. There is clearly a lot of interest in the subject. You always have the option of unsubscribing.

On your website, you state -"I am not looking for male companionship!"

Windy’s comment notwithstanding, I post “not looking for … “ various things in a lot of my online profiles. I actually am looking for those things, just not from those sources!

[rikkiluvxxx]

...i personally enjoy dressed up lady boys...i guess im gay but could never do it with gay that does not dress up...i still luv the girly look...it arouses me...

[jonilace]

I suppose I am more so than when not , but it still yurns me on to be with a guy undressed. I just love to be dressed and undressed I guess.

[Lisa Baby]

Good lord, I love men and so dream of having a prince charming to play with. For me, especially when I'm completely dressed to kill (as I've now been all this wonderful Saturday!), there is nothing more erotic than the fantasy of having a man's lips to pull to mine, to feel my lipstick peal from his lips, to have him in every way possible... Christ, don't get me started!

But Bi? Seems wrong to say that, for when I become as feminine I know to be, the transformation goes to my bones, to my very soul, and I wish for everything a woman does. I'm no different. I'm not bi, I'm completely straight!

Robyn

I agree with Robyn 2000%!

I feel as if I am a true woman and wish to be fulfilled as one.

Lisa

[mhenry]

I must support Windy and her sisters on this one.

Some CDs feel sorta Bi when dressed...and only when dressed. Some CDs don't feel that way at all. etc, etc.

Look at all the categories on "URNOTALONE" !!!

Is a TS who wants to date a man ...Straight...Homosexual...Bi??

ps: to me, Straight/Bi/Homosexual don't exactly fit CDs anyway, not in the traditional meaning anyway. Just my 2 cents Janet

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

A few thoughts....

* There's a big difference between fantasies (that are intriguing but one has no desire to act on), desires (things you'd like to do, regardless of whether you've done them) and actual behavior. Fantasies about "being the woman" sexually do seem to be pretty common from what I've seen (for a variety of reasons). I suspect the number of people who might actually act that out given the opportunity is probably a bit smaller.

* There's plenty of other examples of where sexuality can take unexpected turns. Both prison inmates and immigrant laborers have engaged in homosexual sex when women weren't available. (And engaging in this behavior isn't necessarily seen as "gay sex.") As Kinsey pointed out sexuality -- like gender -- is a spectrum that our society chooses to see as either/or. So for some folks, being en femme, gives them permission to acknowledge attractions that they normally repress.

* As Rachel Ann pointed out, desire is frequently conditional. Hence the jokes about how everyone in bars gets more attractive the closer is it to closing time. Or feminists who became lesbians for political reasons.

* As Marla GG pointed out a while back, a number of "bi-curious" CDs might be better termed "penetration curious."

* For others, the attraction appears be about being the one being romanced than having to be the one who does the romancing. Of course, there's nothing that says those can't be reversed without changing one's gender presentation, but let's face it, a chance to step out of our "every day" gender role expectations is probably a big factor in why we crossdress. So it's not surprising that one might step out of our "every day" sexual attractions either.

Ya know KathrynW, for someone who claims to have an attitude of "not that there's anything wrong with that," you sure don't seem to miss an opportunity to jump all over people you insist are really closeted gays....

[Jennaie]

Somewhere I heard that worms are both male and female. So when a worm has sex or "mates" their female side is having sex with the male side of the other worm and their male side is having sex with the female side of the other worm.

Although I don't have both male and female parts, I'm kindof a worm.

I truly wish that I could change sex at will. It would allow me to experience both worlds and over time decide which I was most comfortable with.

[Rachel Ann]

Very well said, Marlena!

When you consider that we are working with at least three independent variables - sex, gender and sexuality - the spectrum gets complex indeed.

The traditional "GLBT + Straight" (not to mention the intersexed) paradigm keeps getting more complex - and the sets intersect. Let's all just live and let live, and leave the labels to the academics. :cheeky:

Rachel xxx

[VeronicaMoonlit]

But what I usually feel after reading these posts about "into women dressed as a man and into men when dressed as a woman"....is that there are people who really dislike the idea as being viewed as anything but "straight".

To me it shows "possibly" a disdain for being percieved as 'gay', in either mode of gender presentation.

I think because being gay or bi-sexual for so many who are older and grew up with it being "against God" and all that other stuff makes it a reason to appear 'straight' and uphold that. .

Yes, this makes sense to me from what I've seen.


Veronica

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

When you consider that we are working with at least three independent variables - sex, gender and sexuality - the spectrum gets complex indeed.

Actually there's more like five variables:
- sex
- gender self-identity (i.e. how you see yourself)
- gender social identity (i.e. how others perceive you and what social roles you're assigned)
- sexual orientation -- I've heard a good argument that rather than hetrosexual vs. homosexual, it's more useful to think in terms of androphilic and gynophilic (attracted to males and females respectively) since that offers a more consistent way of view the sexuality of TSs -- who can be technically viewed as homosexual pre-op and hetrosexual post-op even though they're attracted to the same person throughout.
- top vs. bottom

Or why transman sociologist Aaron Devor argued for the idea of "gendered sexuality" -- which takes into account not just the anatomical sex but also the gender identities of the people involved.

For what it's worth, actual practice in particular populations echos Devor's assertion. In the prison and immigrant populations I mentioned, you're not considered "gay" as long as you're the top -- and it's pretty common for non-Western cultures to have similar views toward t*folk. In other words, men who have sex with Thai ladyboys or the Xanith in Oman aren't considered to be homosexual. Whereas the ladyboys and Xanith -- while not considered homosexual in the Western sense -- do have lesser social status in part related to being bottoms.

(For those who get all misty-eyed about non-Western attitudes toward t*folks it's worth keeping in mind that the Xanith are by definition prostitutes and they apparently originated because Omani society decided they were a preferable means dealing with the sexuality of unmarried males than risking "despoiling" their unmarried woman.)

[Rachel Ann]

Again, well said, Marlena.

How many know that in the 1950s, many men (J. Edgar Hoover, Roy Cohn and Jack Kerouac are prominent examples) had sex with other men but did not consider themselves homosexual ("gay" was not in vogue yet) because they presented in a "manly", not "effeminate" way?

[Jenny Warren]

Oh Dear! I didn't mean for anyone to get so worked up about this.

It's just that here in the UK I know several tv's/cd's who claim to be 'Bi when dressed' and I have flatly told them that they can't put their sexual prefrences on with their bras and panties.

They say that they would only get 'intimate' with a man while en femme and NEVER want to do anything like that while in male mode.

They tend to get upset when I point out that it's more a case of they haven't yet rather than they never would.

I do feel that everyone is different and all will have different opinions, which should be respected.

Remember, EVERYONE is entitled to MY opinion.

Jenny

[Rachel Ann]

Oh Dear! I didn't mean for anyone to get so worked up about this. ...

I do feel that everyone is different and all will have different opinions, which should be respected.

Remember, EVERYONE is entitled to MY opinion.

Jenny

Well, Jenny, although I don't agree with some of what you say, I think that you did the forum a service by starting a very lively discussion!

Rachel xxx

[livy_m_b]

It's a good string, no one should be concerned that they are expressing ideas that shouldn't be expressed.

It seems like there are two basic approaches here - one approach says that hetero, gay, bi, etc. are objectively ascertainable facts - the other talks in terms of feelings and how they change depending on dressing, circumstances, etc. I'm in the latter group, btw.

But it happens that people want to mix the two categories - the first group wants to say the latter group "feels" gay, bi, etc. - and the second group wants to say the first group is either not taking their feelings into account or that the definitions used by the first group are wrong, imprecise, superseded etc.

I doubt we'll ever agree on a set of definitions, and since I'm in the second group, I don't even see much value in another round of definitional discussions. But it's still been a good discussion and not yet time to shut down.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

- sexual orientation -- I've heard a good argument that rather than hetrosexual vs. homosexual, it's more useful to think in terms of androphilic and gynophilic (attracted to males and females respectively) since that offers a more consistent way of view the sexuality of TSs -- who can be technically viewed as homosexual pre-op and hetrosexual post-op even though they're attracted to the same person throughout.

Or heterosexual pre-op and lesbian after, for those transwomen attracted to women.

Yes, this gynophilic/androphilic does make some sense doesn't it. :-)


Veronica

[JoAnnDallas]

Hummm, since I love women when in drab and also love women when enfemm, does that make me a lesbian when I am all dressed and a hetrosexual when I'm in drab??

[TGMarla]

Whatever.

[MsJanessa]

...i personally enjoy dressed up lady boys...i guess im gay but could never do it with gay that does not dress up...i still luv the girly look...it arouses me...

Me too Darling---My favorite type of partner

[Reana]

Yes, I suppose so, but only with other femme CDs, so far. That's a very nice phrase. Pithy and to the point. I, like some others here, have no interest in any form of physical interaction of this type when not totally dressed.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

It's just that here in the UK I know several tv's/cd's who claim to be 'Bi when dressed' and I have flatly told them that they can't put their sexual prefrences on with their bras and panties.

They say that they would only get 'intimate' with a man while en femme and NEVER want to do anything like that while in male mode.

They tend to get upset when I point out that it's more a case of they haven't yet rather than they never would.

I agree what you're wearing doesn't change your innate sexual attractions. If you're at the exclusively hetrosexual or homosexual end of the Kinsey scale, putting on a bra and panties isn't going to suddenly change who you're attracted to.

OTOH, as Kinsey and other researchers have found, there's a lot of people on the spectrum in between the two polar opposites. So a change in context can trigger (or at least give people give themselves permission to acknowledge) desires people normally keep repressed.

In a sense, it's not that different that people who do things on spring break that they'd never consider doing at home. (For example, the AMA released study last week that found 74 percent of the young women engage in increased sex during spring break and 83 percent drink more than usual.)

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Ummm, wow! LIKE TOTAL WOW! I'm blown away sometimes at the intolerences and the homophobia here! Get a grib grrlz! Jesus H *explicative* Christ!

[KewTnCurvy GG]

So for me, the whole "bi when dressed" thing doesn't make any sense - sorry 0.02

Does it have to make sense to you for it to be real to others!?!? I'm going crazy here!

Okay, now I'll calm down, take a deep breath and assume you're not generalizing; however, why say it the way you said it if you aren't generalizing? GRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[magpie]

i'm bi i`ve even gone as far as sleeping with another man well 2 anyway. not at the same time although i've never gone the whole way whith a man just played. i'm so open minded i like to try this things. i think i'm still looking for me to work out who or what i am. i do prefer women though and there clothes are so much more sensual and comfy.

[CHRISSY in LI NY]

i just love nylon and pantyhose and heels ect. (the look the feel) but i really have'nt been with anyone dressed YET (myself or them) .... i'm think i might combust if it did happen rrrrrrow lol "uh we'll take the fire proof room"