are we underdogs in society

[shirley1]

does anyone think like me and think we are currently the biggest underdogs in society - women can more or less wear what they want show their masculine side everyday - why do we have to hide in the closet - gay people seem more able to come out these days ect - why is crossdressin such a taboo subject - what are we affraid of - is it because we are in such a minority or is it because men generally are just thick/stupid and dont realise that times have changed and women have the best of both worlds these days - i recently told a mate of mine about my cding and all he could think of was to say "you need a women and a shag" so in other words women have personal needs emotional needs but all men need is to get layed" that in my opinion is whats wrong with society womens needs have been recognized for men nothings changed - someday soon i'm going to walk out my door in a dress and the only people who will critisize will be the typical macho blokes who would most likely have a go at anyone who looked a bit different !

[helenr]

friend, every transvestite lives with this frustration as long as he lives. You can't change how Society feels. I feel your exasperation. helenr

[Celeste]

Good post-your right, I think it has a lot to do with our point in time.when ever I look back to ancient times it seems they were less critical of male-female attire.Could it be they were more able to accept people for who they were inside not out.I believe the desire to want to "fit into the mold" is out of hand in modern times.People are way to critical and fearful of what they don't understand readily.It's fear.I for one .when confronted with something I cannot grasp will take the time and effort to try and learn more about it. We all need to slow down long enough to value what makes others tick.

[Carin]

No it's not about women versus men. Its easy to find ways to come to that conclusion, but that is a convenience conclusion.

The concepts of transgendered are amongst the least explored and least understood in public and professional circles. From the dark ages, people who engage in activity that the general populus does nto understand have been victimized. Fear is a powerful motivator.

In truth, it is you choice to be a victim or not. You could just be content with being misunderstood.

Not fair? No it is not. Like a few other things in life.

:2c:

[jaina]

does anyone think like me and think we are currently the biggest underdogs in society - women can more or less wear what they want show their masculine side everyday - why do we have to hide in the closet - gay people seem more able to come out these days ect - why is crossdressin such a taboo subject - what are we affraid of - is it because we are in such a minority or is it because men generally are just thick/stupid and dont realise that times have changed and women have the best of both worlds these days - i recently told a mate of mine about my cding and all he could think of was to say "you need a women and a shag" so in other words women have personal needs emotional needs but all men need is to get layed" that in my opinion is whats wrong with society womens needs have been recognized for men nothings changed - someday soon i'm going to walk out my door in a dress and the only people who will critisize will be the typical macho blokes who would most likely have a go at anyone who looked a bit different !

You are the underdog you allow yourself to be. Make "someday" today.

[trannie T]

You are the underdog you allow yourself to be. Make "someday" today.

Exactly! We have to quit feeling sorry for ourselves and get on with living!

[battybattybats]

The biggest underdogs in society?
No, I don't think so. I think that some people have it worse than us.

Some groups with mental illness are probably worse off. Many end up poor and destitute and then are blamed for being in that state. Some racial/ethnic groups still are treated so badly by many as to possibly be listed below us too.

But I don't think we are very far from the bottom.
And what about the TG's with mental illness? The TGs who are homeless? The TG's who belong to racial/ethnic groups that are still frequently despised? Maybe they are the biggest underdogs in society.

So what can be done about it?

a) decry bigotry in all it's forms whenever you see it. Racism, sexism, ablism, homophobia, transphobia... no excuses. If someone makes such a coment, disagree publicly. If you see an injustice, speak and act!

b) consider contributing financially to groups willing to fight for TG (and others) rights and justice

c) irrespective of other politics consider voting, and particularly voting for those who will support, or at the least not oppress, the rights of TG's and all others

d) support trans-positive media representations. Write to companies that publish/produce positive TG images to tell them you approve. Don't just rent or download but make it a point to buy DVD's of positive portrayels of TGs.

e) find some way you can personally advance the cause. Can you help TG's in your workplace? Can you help TGs from your workplace? Do you have any skills or resources that could, even in a tiny way, be put to use to help out TGs in society?

[Melinda G]

I don't think we are underdogs in society. Many of us just think we are. I've said many times, we are too hard on ourselves. I think most of us, being heterosexual, do not want to be perceived as gay. And for that reason, we worry about being found out. Most people just don't care. "Hey, that might be a guy". "Yeah, could be". "How bout those gas prices"?
I've seen obvious crossdressers, and didn't think much about it, except some of them weren't even remotely passable. But no one ran over and assaulted them. No one paid any attention. It's just not the big deal we make it out to be.

[battybattybats]

Internalised homophobia and/or transphobia? Of course there is a lot of that.

However there wouldn't be a call for hate-crimes legislation or exist a transgender day of rememberance if real problems didn't exist.

Though the problems will often be much worse amongst already disadvantaged or downtrodden communities.

[shirley1]

I don't think we are underdogs in society. Many of us just think we are. I've said many times, we are too hard on ourselves. I think most of us, being heterosexual, do not want to be perceived as gay. And for that reason, we worry about being found out. Most people just don't care. "Hey, that might be a guy". "Yeah, could be". "How bout those gas prices"?
I've seen obvious crossdressers, and didn't think much about it, except some of them weren't even remotely passable. But no one ran over and assaulted them. No one paid any attention. It's just not the big deal we make it out to be.

i am going to a tg meeting soon and hopefully i'll feel the same way as you after a while but do you not understand where i'm coming - you tell me then why as a woman i can go out wearing pants but as a guy i cant wear a skirt - phychological maybe but be honest if women were still inthe same boat as us they wouldnt be wearing trousers to go out i'm not stupid your just trying to justify reasons for society being the way it is dont there is no reason !

[Claudia Zylindrias]

I believe batty has it compeletly right. We need to change society perceptions simply by being us. I go out wearing fem clothes all the time. I not passable even when i fully in-fem not at 6'2". But most people aside from a double take really don't care.

So decry bigotry in all its forms stand up for individual freedom.

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

a) decry bigotry in all it's forms whenever you see it. Racism, sexism, ablism, homophobia, transphobia... no excuses. If someone makes such a coment, disagree publicly. If you see an injustice, speak and act!

Wonderful post, Batty!

Zara

[JacquiUKTV]

does anyone think like me and think we are currently the biggest underdogs in society - women can more or less wear what they want show their masculine side everyday - why do we have to hide in the closet - gay people seem more able to come out these days ect - why is crossdressin such a taboo subject - what are we affraid of - is it because we are in such a minority or is it because men generally are just thick/stupid and dont realise that times have changed and women have the best of both worlds these days - i recently told a mate of mine about my cding and all he could think of was to say "you need a women and a shag" so in other words women have personal needs emotional needs but all men need is to get layed" that in my opinion is whats wrong with society womens needs have been recognized for men nothings changed - someday soon i'm going to walk out my door in a dress and the only people who will critisize will be the typical macho blokes who would most likely have a go at anyone who looked a bit different !

I believe this...whatever the pretensions to emancipation in the modern world humankind is still largely controlled by the evolved psychology of ancient times...i.e., men went out and strangled bears, chopped down trees, fought off predators (be they on two legs or four) etc. whereas women remained at home, raising the offspring and keeping house....expecting to be provided for.

In the minds of the testosterone-driven a higher value is placed on masculinity as compared to femininity..."man" being the perceived "sine qua non" of the whole arrangement.

Translating this to modern times, women are still "secretly" regarded as being, bluntly, the "weaker" sex; and therefore perhaps may be allowed their harmless little "eccentricities"...like aspiring to be men by way of (for example) their chosen mode of dress. But at least, according to the psychology I propose, they're trying to take a step "upward"...bless them, poor little darlings; they're merely women but they're trying to be something better...so that's OK then.

Yes, it's disgustingly patronizing isn't it? But I believe this is how many think even in today's world.

And then, mutatis mutandis, for a man to distance himself from his "bless-ed" gender by assuming the attributes of...oh...a woman??? Betraying his God-given superior masculinity by revealing, or indeed, embracing feminity within himself? Surely this must point to degeneration...a reversed evolutionary step...and we can't have that, can we now?

Yes, I know all this sounds hopelessly crude and ingenuous; I just happen to think that much of human psychology is in fact that simplistic; sometimes we beguile ourselves into depths that aren't actually there...


Just an opinion...much Jacqueline.

[MsToriJones]

I think as we in society learn we can be more open and not pass judgment so quick. At one time I thought all CDs were gay, I definitely know better now so today if I see a man wearing women's clothing (and I can actually tell) I don't "think" anything about him/her. I just know that it is a genetic male who is out fem for the day and accept her for that.

but then it is the same when I meet someone who is gay, they are what they are, they don't expect me to be gay so why should I expect them to be straight?

We (society) are learning so remain open to sharing information on the topic with those willing to listen and just like other society "differences" you will become more accepted. Think about it, at one time cross dressing was a hidden hobby until that first one who thought "I wonder if I can pass as fem out there" and out she went.

Tori

[Kate Simmons]

Even "Underdog" has super powers.

[Mixie]

I'd like to think that something positive can come out of being a CD, other than fulfilling ever-present internal desires. I've read some very interesting things about CD, things that make me think there's something greater in all of this, and that a more common awareness and acceptance might represent a form of societal evolution, born through acceptance. There is something wrong with the way men are treated in our society. It is a pretty strict role to play. Then again, I AM biased.

[battybattybats]

I'd like to think that something positive can come out of being a CD, other than fulfilling ever-present internal desires. I've read some very interesting things about CD, things that make me think there's something greater in all of this, and that a more common awareness and acceptance might represent a form of societal evolution, born through acceptance. There is something wrong with the way men are treated in our society. It is a pretty strict role to play. Then again, I AM biased.

They say an artist or writer needs to suffer because they learn from that suffering.. well I wouldn't go that far exactly.

However I think that our experience can give us deep insights into a variety of aspects of culture, society, gender and life that others could not possibly have because they haven't had the life experiences to inform them. They can only learn from us.

P.S. In fact I think that there are things about being a woman that could only be realised by MtoF transsexuals and/or by crossdressers! Things that would too easilly be taken for granted by women born into that experience. I think the same would be true of Men learning about men from FtoM's too.

[christina marie]

not just us the boys get it too. i was in a gas station a couple of weeks ago, two female cashiers, one looking the part of an FTM, the other really reading her the riot act about wearing a chain wallet. she just kept her head down, saying nothing, but after standing in line a few moments, it was starting to piss me off! she was still going strong when i made it up to the register, so i (in not so nice terms) told her she should concentrate on her own issues(bigger around than tall) instead of shoving her nose into someone elses life.stopped her dead in her tracks, and the little bit of a smile i got from the girl with the chain wallet was the best thank you ive had in a long time!

[Nicki B]

Many of the posters at the start of this thread don't tell us their location?

It seems to vary, where you live, but IME the problem is not society's - it's ours. So we can't just sit in the closet waiting for someone else to solve the problem for us - WE have to do something about it. (And, again IME, when you do, you find it's not nearly so much of the problem you thought it would be.)

Life is always a compromise - but if you just abdicate fighting for your beliefs and your needs, you're not compromising...

[Angie G]

You can't change the spots on a leopard hun gays & blacks have had equal rightsfor some time now and some bigots still hate them just becouse they do not look or think like them. I'm sorry to say people like this will always be around hun as sad as it is.
Angie

[shirley1]

I believe this...whatever the pretensions to emancipation in the modern world humankind is still largely controlled by the evolved psychology of ancient times...i.e., men went out and strangled bears, chopped down trees, fought off predators (be they on two legs or four) etc. whereas women remained at home, raising the offspring and keeping house....expecting to be provided for.

In the minds of the testosterone-driven a higher value is placed on masculinity as compared to femininity..."man" being the perceived "sine qua non" of the whole arrangement.

Translating this to modern times, women are still "secretly" regarded as being, bluntly, the "weaker" sex; and therefore perhaps may be allowed their harmless little "eccentricities"...like aspiring to be men by way of (for example) their chosen mode of dress. But at least, according to the psychology I propose, they're trying to take a step "upward"...bless them, poor little darlings; they're merely women but they're trying to be something better...so that's OK then.

Yes, it's disgustingly patronizing isn't it? But I believe this is how many think even in today's world.

And then, mutatis mutandis, for a man to distance himself from his "bless-ed" gender by assuming the attributes of...oh...a woman??? Betraying his God-given superior masculinity by revealing, or indeed, embracing feminity within himself? Surely this must point to degeneration...a reversed evolutionary step...and we can't have that, can we now?

Yes, I know all this sounds hopelessly crude and ingenuous; I just happen to think that much of human psychology is in fact that simplistic; sometimes we beguile ourselves into depths that aren't actually there...


Just an opinion...much Jacqueline.

at last someone who understands where i'm coming from on this you are dead right - mens traits strong secure protective assertive - female vunrebility emotional soft - mens traits are positive womans negative in ie the world we live in therefore woman trying to enter the male world is seen as a positive step - men entering female domain negative - not productive seen as a threat to other males cancel out its wrong - thats my thought from a phychological point of view - but doesnt make it any easier for us guys wishing we were girls - but the knock on effect today woman have the best of both worlds these days it used to be the other way round but the pendulim has swung - most guys are too stupid to realiase this maybe then its just as well !

[docrobbysherry]

"My Space" has us listed as a subcatigory under the heading ,
" Gay, lesbian, bi ".
RS

[Sarah Doepner]

It seems clear to me that Cross Dressers are one of the last groups to move into the mainstream. I wonder sometimes if the "T" in GLBT is being seriously addressed yet. Just about everyone understands Sexual Attraction and how strong it is, but being Transgendered is not about the thing they can intuitively understand. Gender identity is not something that is easily understood because most people don't have a conflict in the first place. That makes is very difficult to explain and will probably make it very difficult for us to gain wide acceptance. I'm happy with tolerance for the time being, and hoping the next generation will find it easier because of the efforts of those who have gone before.

[susandrea]

Keep in mind that it wasn't all that long ago that blacks could not mingle with whites, women were not allowed to vote, and gays were either jailed or sent to asylums.

It IS possible to change society, but only if enough people demand it be changed and stay changed.

:D

[battybattybats]

We could have been at the forefront of the struggle since the law that sparked the Stonewall riots was clothing based and the beginning of the riot involved a transsexual.

Why then has it been the gays and lesbians who have managed to gain more acceptance and not us?

Especially when some numbers bandied about suggests that there are perhaps more straight crossdressers then there are gays and lesbians?