Yes, it's just that easy.

[Tree GG]

"...comfortably cutting them out of the picture..."

".....unbelievable freedom to dress......"

"....long before I met you, she was there...."

These are quotes from a CD.com post, an unassociated journal I read from a CD about his journey out of the closet/divorce & the third from another CD's writings. I think none indicate any remorse or regret or even concern for the wife or her feelings. IMO, they show a tendency to treat "the woman within" as the ultimate goddess and the real, breathing wife as an appendage to be removed as if it offends "her". At the very least, the wife appears to be just an incidental casualty.

Is it that easy to choose unconditional, totally at your discretion and control CDing over your life partner? For those who have split because of CDing, how soon after you were married did you realize CDing was more important than your marriage?

For those who have chosen to stay and compromise or communicate or empathize or whatever the difference was that made it work, is there resentment at the restrictions a "not fully out" lifestyle dictates?

Please treat this as an academic query - I am not trying to enflame or insult anyone, but I have just seen alot of print lately that seems to treat the unaccepting or "marginally accepting" wife as disposable. Is the choice really that easy?

[sparks]

My wife and family are everything. I might be fighting a losing battle in my marriage over the cd issue. I can't seem to stop dressing I've gone that route for her. But I remain to keep fighting for us.
CDing is a very selfish thing. It can be all consuming. Often I hate it for the impact it seems to have on my life and I continue to fight it. Somewhere there should be a happy medium that we can all find.

[SANDRA MICHELLE]

For some it is but for me I would never want to lose my wife over crossdressing, it's been a comprimise from day 1. I do feel slighted at times because I can't do some of the things I would want to do but I look at what she has given up and it brings me crashing back to reality. Crossdressing is the most selfous thing I have ever done, it is for me and only me. I hate the fact that it affects my wife negatively and that will always be a deterrant to curtail my needs. Nothing is more important overall than my family and my wife.

[Karren H]

I choose not to choose one over the other.... And though my wife is less than enthrauled about my "hobby", I love her and my family above all else!! Soooo if there's time for Karren then fine... Else I have more important thing to take care of...

Btw.. I do have time and the family and Karren are surviving.... Separate but not equal...

Karren

[Wendy me]

my SO my wife , sets above my cding always has always will .... she knows but is unsuportive , this has driven me crazy at times... yes Wendy is a important part of who i am , and my wife is also important part of who i am ....

now i do know that stopping this part of me is not going to happen... and truth be told if it ever came down to my cding or my wife ... there would be more issues to it than simply dressing ... i tell her i love yar to death... but in all honesty this is also a part of who i am .... aether shared together or done by myself .... i would not ask her nor would i expect that all these years together and every thing we have been through to make a choose to end it over something like this....

[tommi]

As I assume with many here, I thought marriage would override the desire to
crossdress. At times it most certainly does and others it drives me into the
closet.There are times when I want to be taken care of and pampered as
there are times when I want to do the pampering. My agreement is to stay
in the closet we have a young family married 14yrs I admitted the truth at
10 and it hasn't been easy for her and I do feel liable for that.
I have gone to counciling in an effort to learn other methods of dealing with
my feelings but the desire to dress always returns,maybe not to the extent of
many,I do not feel I have to go all out.
I would love to go to a support group and actually talk about these feelings
but I am afraid that may just push the desire over the edge.
I love my wife and child and do not want to loose them by doing something
of that nature.
When I feel the desire to shop I go out in drab I'll look at clothes that I like
but normally will buy something for my wife instead, lets be honest at least
she can use it. I do have a small stash out of site and will wear panties and
an occasional bra or nite gown. Sometimes I might even try on some of her
clothes that are close to my size but rarely stay in them very long and I
only wear drab or unisex clothes if out wearing femme.
Resentment Hell no, wishing for a little understanding yes.

[DeeInGeorgia]

Luckily, I vented on a post earlier.

On the way to an Engagement Encounter in 1987, we stopped at a dinner place known for it's Salad Bar. My wife got a large plate of potato skis and loaded them up with sour cream and cheese and bacon bits, etc. and it was about twice of what I could eat. When I mentioned that it had a lot of calories, my wife to be basically told me that if I ever questioned her again about her eating, she would leave me, and she was seriously considering whether to continue with our wedding plans.

She has never had any problems letting me know when I displeased her or disgust her. I on the other hand refuse to insult, or let her know if she does things I find disgusting.

She has changed physically and mentally over the years before she even knew I crossdressed that I would have found disgusting if I had met her as the way she is now when I was the age I met her.

I treat her well, letting her know every day that I love her, both in word and touch.

We remain together because I let her ride roughshod all over me and because I love her and do not believe I could ever find another person that could love me. And I believe I would not need to crossdress as much if she hadn't changed so much over the years (but that is probably just a wish on my part).

Dee (me) is just basically standing up for myself when I have failed to do so for so many years over fear.

Dee

[amanda barber]

Some won't like this, but here goes.

Yes its thats easy. Life is to short to spend it with the wrong person. Without acceptance for who you are, what are you compromising to save? a marraige for a joint tax return? a lie till the kids are 18? a roommate? a second income?

To be blunt and crude, "You didn't have breasts when we got married and I can't accept that because its not who I married" is no different than "You didn't have fat arse when we got married and I can't accept that because its not who I married" Why would either partner put up with either situation?

Lying about it is a seperate issue and a valid point, its part of trust.
No one should be trapped in their home, don't work to save a piece of paper if love, respect, acceptance and trust are not there. Why would a non-accepting wife WANT a crossdressing/TG husband? a paycheck?

Before someone writes the "you must be single" post, 17 years with one person, not allways perfect, but allways love, acceptance, respect and trust.

[melissacd]

I am definitely in Amanda's camp on this one though for a very long time I thought that I had to sacrifice everything for my partner.

I have gone through a process where I have tried everything that I can think of to deal with this internally and in the relationship. I now realize that for me cross dressing is not a selfish act, it is just an expression of who I have always been. It is not something that I can stop, it is something that I can manage.

Similarly, I have a very strong sex drive, so again while I can manage it I cannot stop that either.

Now while I love my partner dearly, I cannot stop being a cross dresser nor can I stop having a sex drive, both things which she has requested of me. At the same time, through several rounds of counselling and much discussion she has continually stuck to these two things as non-negotiable for her.

All this being said, we are in a place that is akin to flogging a dead horse. At some point you realize that no amount of anything will get you to a point where the relationship will serve either of the couples needs. At that place you have to call it quits so that each of you can get on with the life that you need to live. It is sad, it is troublesome, it is painful and it is the adult thing to do.

It is, however, not easy.

Huggs
Melissa

[racquel]

I agree with Amanda, bite the bullet if you are just starting a relationship and share with her about what you are and if she is accepting then there is no trust issues.If she refuses then move on and spare you both the pain.
If you are married and hide this then again the issue of trust is at the forefront.It's a tough one.

[heelme]

I think this is a great question. I suppose there are some folks that would readily choose their other self over their mate. I suspect that same person would be more inclind to choose self over another in various aspects of life. I make the choice almost every day. Some days I am more selfish and do what I want to do. Most days I don't and leave my desires in the drawer. If things had turned out different back when my wife and I came to head about my dressing, AND there were no compromise, I would like to think I would stick with my wife and quit dressing. Difficult to consider, but I think I could and would do it. I live with some compromise, but feel absolutely no resentment at all.

[Teresa Amina]

I have nothing but sympathy for those who find themselves having to choose between the SO and being true to themselves. Like others here I married with the thought that it was a way to not deal with my trans nature. Doesn't work. We are what we are. If my wife had not tragically died of cancer I would be in exactly the same situation as many who now have to deal with the unresolvable conflict between the two. None of it is easy.

[battybattybats]

I think the key to understanding the comments is the divorce and not the crossdressing. Everyone I know including relatives who have divorced say similar things. "Finally I can do some things for me" "At last I'm free" etc all quotes from someone who left their lying cheating alcoholic financially abusive partner but the same kinds of things have been said by people I know with fairly amicable splits.

I think its all about the discovery of freedom and the self again and also a matter of protecting the emotions of the self... No-one I know who split with their lover/partner/husband or wife and did not later get back together said much about how their former partner might be feeling for a long time

[Angie G]

Not for me I put my wife before all and anything we made 2 lifes
A boy and a girl we have been married 38 years and she is my reason for living

Angie

[Julie York]

The samples of dialogue you showed, illustrate someone feeling a great sense of relief AFTER the event. What about the torture they went through beforehand of being in a lousy marriage, or being genuinely TS and miserable most of their lives? Wouldn't they express the same sentiments?

If I was made miserable by someone I married then it would be very sad indeed, for whatever reason, but after the event and the pain and the hurt.....I would be relieved to get rid of them and very likely express myself in sweeping statements about the whole experience that probably wouldn't be a fair representation of the relationship.


I see your point......but I think it is biased and provocative because it's so selective and polarised. It is not a case of choosing this or that, your wife or CD.

Anyone in a REAL position of having to choose between one or the other is not being self indulgent. They are desperately suicidally transexual. Everything after that is a case of human nature and lack of compromise.

[JoAnnDallas]

TrueGG asked the questions:

"...comfortably cutting them out of the picture..."

".....unbelievable freedom to dress......"

"....long before I met you, she was there...."

I myself am still in the closet to my wife. I will probley stay there until either I pass away or she finds out. My wife has MS and for those who know what it is and how it affects a person, there is no way I would contemplate telling her I am a CDer. I have endured people staring at my wife, thinking she is drunk, because she is unsteady on her feet. I have had people get mad at me because she will get unsteady; fall, and I don’t rush right over and help her up. She knows how to fall to keep from hurting herself. I will usually make sure she is OK, but I will let her get up by herself. Something she wants to do. Besides I’m not strong enough to just pick her up by myself. I have helped her thru bouts of pain, frustration, and anger prior to her hip replacements. Even when it got so bad, she went onto happy pills. On her part she has put up with a lot of my frustrations and I even left a company I had been working for 14 years with, in order to be closer to her. I was spending a lot of time over seas. Sometimes 2-3 months at a stretch, 2-3 times a year. She lets me do just about anything I want to do, within reason. I am a pilot, model railroader, amateur radio operator, among others. I have spent a lot of time and money in theses and she has told me that if it relaxes me and pleases me, then she is pleased. I would hope that when the time comes that she finds out that I am a CDer, that she will not freak and see it as just another of my endeavors. That is it relaxes and pleases me.

Since I joined this forum and others, I have read of CDer’s being found out by their wife’s or the CDer tells them, some were OK with it, some over time were OK with it, and some worked out compromises. Others were Ok at first, but later were not OK with it, even if the CDer bent over backwards to compromise and usually end up as an ultimatum, either quit totally or get out. As we all know, we cannot totally quit. Even if the CDer did agree to quit, it will come back later and the cycle starts over. Of those that end up in divorce, I imagine that they do find some kind of relief, since they now can let it be in the open. Also after all of the incriminating remarks and actions that result from both sides of a divorce, when it is all over, relief does set in. I know I was married once before I married my current wife and it was a messy divorce. After a while relief does come about and you do feel good that all of it is finally over. I also know that one will questions themselves as to why they married that person it the first place. Also they may think back and see things that happen that they did not notice before. From reading many postings where the marriage ended, I sensed that the CDer tried to keep it together, but also tried to keep his CDing in the picture too, since it is a part of him and he cannot separate it from his self. I have also observed that when a marriage does end because the husband is a CDer, it is usually the wife that wants the divorce. Some of this is the result of lack of communications between the CDer and the wife. Sometime no matter how much they communicate, no compromise can be made. How does one tell another about what a CDer IS? I know when the time comes that I will have to explain to my wife, I will not be able to answer all her questions or squelch her fears.

[Kathleen Ann Trees]

I opened up to my wife after 11 years. That was 3 years ago. Crossdressing is really the only difficult issue we have. Well, not counting money. We have a habit of spending just more than I make. CDing is part of that.

She once told me that we probably wouldn't be married if she knew in advance. But, for better or for worse, we have stuck together. I think we have a great marriage. Using many around us as a measure, that seems to be even more true. We click together. Minor life hurdles? Sure.

To the point. Would I leave instead of dressing. No way. Do I want to stop? NO WAY! How to make this a better working compromise is constantly on my mind. We've made minor steps together, but there's a long way to go on this journey. I pray she wants to keep going with me.

Kathleen

[ubokvt]

I have just seen alot of print lately that seems to treat the unaccepting or "marginally accepting" wife as disposable. Is the choice really that easy?

It is never easy to end a relationship. There is more than enough pain to go around for everyone involved. But when one partner can no longer accept the others behavior or actions regardless of what they are, CDing, infedelity,abuse, whaever.... No mater how painful or hard, it might be the only HEALTHY thing to do for all involved

[CarmenG]

Luckily, I vented on a post earlier.

On the way to an Engagement Encounter in 1987, we stopped at a dinner place known for it's Salad Bar. My wife got a large plate of potato skis and loaded them up with sour cream and cheese and bacon bits, etc. and it was about twice of what I could eat. When I mentioned that it had a lot of calories, my wife to be basically told me that if I ever questioned her again about her eating, she would leave me, and she was seriously considering whether to continue with our wedding plans.

She has never had any problems letting me know when I displeased her or disgust her. I on the other hand refuse to insult, or let her know if she does things I find disgusting.

She has changed physically and mentally over the years before she even knew I crossdressed that I would have found disgusting if I had met her as the way she is now when I was the age I met her.

I treat her well, letting her know every day that I love her, both in word and touch.

We remain together because I let her ride roughshod all over me and because I love her and do not believe I could ever find another person that could love me. And I believe I would not need to crossdress as much if she hadn't changed so much over the years (but that is probably just a wish on my part).

Dee (me) is just basically standing up for myself when I have failed to do so for so many years over fear.

Dee

Dee, I'm afraid you have bigger problems than crossdressing......
you sound like my older brother. He got married toa rather pretty girl back then, but she was somewhat aggresive. I gave my brother my opinion but he just kinda shrugged it off. anyway to make a long story short, 35 years later, she can't stand to see me, and I have to see my brother by appoontment. He is weak minded, non-confrontive, and very passive... A WIMP IN OTHER WORDS!!!
Don't push off the blame or make excuses because you just can't get over that hump. your wife has changed much to your disgust and you still stay. People that use "THE FAMILY" as a crutch to warrant their pain and suffering are just as guilty of denying their own self worth.
Society has taken us to the edge of our own inner being and we won't take a risk......... I am just as guilty as the next but I don't use it to avoid the truth.
Hell Dee, I too can not just dress when I want but who gives a sh--......
Just be yourself, and life is not that bad. you bang your head against the wall and guess what.... LIFE GOES ON......
Hey Dee, good luck in what you deciede and forgive my ranting..... There are plenty of sisters here that will help you out.....

[CarmenG]

I am definitely in Amanda's camp on this one though for a very long time I thought that I had to sacrifice everything for my partner.

I have gone through a process where I have tried everything that I can think of to deal with this internally and in the relationship. I now realize that for me cross dressing is not a selfish act, it is just an expression of who I have always been. It is not something that I can stop, it is something that I can manage.

Similarly, I have a very strong sex drive, so again while I can manage it I cannot stop that either.

Now while I love my partner dearly, I cannot stop being a cross dresser nor can I stop having a sex drive, both things which she has requested of me. At the same time, through several rounds of counselling and much discussion she has continually stuck to these two things as non-negotiable for her.

All this being said, we are in a place that is akin to flogging a dead horse. At some point you realize that no amount of anything will get you to a point where the relationship will serve either of the couples needs. At that place you have to call it quits so that each of you can get on with the life that you need to live. It is sad, it is troublesome, it is painful and it is the adult thing to do.

It is, however, not easy.

Huggs
Melissa

[Kimberley]

I think it is unfair to generalize so broadly on an issue that is case by case very intimate.

First the very nature of the question implies there is a choice between dressing or not. The fact is there is no choice. To ask this question is inherantly wrong, and to be honest, one I am surprised to see on these forums.

Secondly to assume the "goddess within" is more important than a wife of family is about as arrogant as can be. If the ultimatum is to not be who you are to keep a marriage, then one has to assume the foundations of the marriage are tenuous at best. The equation of the goddess within to a wife in the context of creating a parallel is about as off the mark as anyone can get.

Is CDing more important than a marriage? Of course not. Is a wife's acceptance to be unconditional? Of course not. If the nonacceptance translates to breathing or not, is there a choice? Of course not.

Okay, that goes to the CD. The transsexual is an entirely different matter in that everything is so much more intensified. Having said that, can a TS live in a marriage? Yes. Can a marriage survive with a TS partner. Yes. Does the TS have to make concessions. Absolutely, just as the CD has to.

Look, a wife in a transgendered marriage has to make some very hard and INFORMED decisions. The transgendered partner cannot deny this. They may or may not be able to live with conditions. In the end it does come down to good communications between partners recognizing the strengths, pitfalls, emotions and feelings of each other before a decision can be made. The fact is that MOST women cannot accept let alone tolerate a CD partner. The fact remains that most will not try. So is the ultimatum fair? You tell me.

Wives should have certain rights if they are going to accept their CD partner and those rights should be adhered to by both partners, not just one. If one partner cant or doesnt adhere to them then one has to wonder how or why they were agreed to in the first place.

End of Rant.
Kimberley.

Oh and my wife will not accept that I am transgendered so I have to stay in the closet. Is it right? No. Is it wrong? No. It is trying to keep a marriage together with someone I love very much. But if it came down to it, the decision to stay or leave would be hers; not mine.

[brina_cd]

I have a VERY unsupportive wife. I got the "either THAT goes or you do" ultimatum some time ago. So, out it went.

Of course the desire is always there. Some times its
stronger than others. I muddle through. Having kids (thankfully?) limits my chances to dress. So I don't break my word. Not a happy solution, but it is one she can live with.

Needless to say, I get depressed occasionally, especially when I see accepting spouses.

[MJ]

[QUOTE=Tree GG;771361]"...comfortably cutting them out of the picture..."

".....unbelievable freedom to dress......"

"....long before I met you, she was there...."

These are quotes from a CD.com post, an unassociated journal I read from a CD about his journey out of the closet/divorce & the third from another CD's writings. I think none indicate any remorse or regret or even concern for the wife or her feelings. IMO, they show a tendency to treat "the woman within" as the ultimate goddess and the real, breathing wife as an appendage to be removed as if it offends "her". At the very least, the wife appears to be just an incidental casualty.

Is it that easy to choose unconditional, totally at your discretion and control CDing over your life partner? For those who have split because of CDing, how soon after you were married did you realize CDing was more important than your marriage?

For those who have chosen to stay and compromise or communicate or empathize or whatever the difference was that made it work, is there resentment at the restrictions a "not fully out" lifestyle dictates?

Please treat this as an academic query - I am not trying to enflame or insult anyone, but

I have just seen alot of print lately that seems to treat the unaccepting or "marginally accepting" wife as disposable. Is the choice really that easy

dear Tree
i hate to reply to some threads as my sisters tend to get a little better understanding were i come from . OK get inside my head , i loved my ex with all my heart and if i could go back in time i would not have done what i did and i would never have come clean.. my wife was never disposable nor my children for that matter, and had she "marginally accepted" me i would never had gone down the path i have chosen today..
and yes i know a bed of lies is a very uncomfortable place to sleep. like many of us here i chose to keep a part of my life secret and now i pay the price
from her point of view what have i done will she ever trust another man , how much damage have i done and whats yet to come. were there was love there is now hate . all because i could not tell her about this little thing called cross dressing ..

[Country girl]

[SIZE=3]Wow! so much dissention. It IS sad when a spouse cannot or will not accept their partner for who they are. It is also sad that people marry someone without being honest in the first place. BUT IMHO the vows you take when you get married don't say for better or worse if..., they DO however say 'till death us do part. Unless you had that line written out of your vows, then is becomes a question of " why would you say something you weren't prepared to uphold?" You are unhappy? Well I say you decide whether to be happy with your lot in life. Karren Hutton's wife is unaccepting, yet she seems to be able to create a balance for herslf that keeps her fairly content. Maybe everyone whose spouse is unaccepting should try to do the same. As my daddy always said, "you made your bed, now you lie in it." If you have lied to your spouse for years upon years as to who you really are, do you really have to wonder why there is a trust and acceptance issue? Just my . [/SIZE]

[marie354]

Don't you like the part of the marriage vows that goes...
"to love, honor, cherrish, and OBEY"