Stand up, Be proud! Fight for your rights, take a stand.

[Ms. Donna]

This is about the right for anyone to be who they are without the fear of persecution and ridicule. This is about the right to not be told who we are by those other than ourselves.

Broadly speaking, this right is an illusion.

There are islands of acceptance which you can try to expand.

It's not an illusion, it's a goal. And I'm under no assumption that it is an easily attainable goal or even one I will get to see achieved. However, it should not deter us from striving to reach that goal - to lay the foundation so that one day it can be attained.

This, to me, is a far better course of action than selfishly sitting back and letting it be someone else's problem. Issues which effect one group of people effect all people at some point.


It's time to be the hammer, for we have been the anvil for far too long...

It's not really the bad things that hold people back, it's the fear of the bad things.
. . .
Just my thoughts anyway

100%


Love & Stuff,
Donna

[tgnikki]

Hello Sisters..I with Ericka on this one..I will not not go back in the closet..I have kept Nikki in the closet too long..It cost me my marriage, however, my children have come to know Nikki very well..My children love Nikki, and they have accepted her with love and understanding..Yes, it is a world that most people do not understand, however, we need to work together and educated the world on Transgender issues..I love being a girl and look forward to the day when I can be free of the hate toward us girls..Take care and live for each day that you have..

Love, Nikki

[Bernice]

It's not really the bad things that hold people back, it's the fear of the bad things. You can't be sure you'll lose your job, your wife and kids, your friends, and then be tied to a tree upside down and taunted with ice cream, can you? But the fear that it might happen stops enough people to keep CDs a visible minority.

I also agree wholeheartedly with VeronicaMoonlit, and admire her courage, however, I lack that same courage myself. I'd rather be her heavily-armed escort in drab, than risk everything myself. That's how much I fear the expected hostility. May I please have an M16 for EACH hand, and some effective Kevlar underwear and helmet?

None of that changes the fact that VeronicaMoonlit may well become our emancipator. I certainly hope so. She should not have to do this alone.

There is some increased level of safety in numbers, and her points are all well considered (and expressed). Still, too many of us are isolated wimps. I wish we could learn to trust each other enough to share personal information more readily, and to organize a mass movement. I wish we were more inclined to answer VeronicaMoonlit's magnificent call to action, and give her enough support to make this happen.

Wishing won't make it happen.

Veronica, I salute you! I nominate you for wing commander, or commander in chief, or whatever! But before I enlist for active duty, can you first teach me how you come by all this courage?

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Interesting responses truly from all.

I'm not anyone special, or brave or courageous. I feel scared, afraid, lonely and in doubt at times. I cry many times I'm no mighty leader or warrior princess forged in the heat of battle. I am just one person, muddling my way through my life as best I can.

But I do want to make things better. I want the next generation of t-folk to have it better than I did. In fact I want the ones alive today to have it better each and every year. I try to do what I can. There's things I have done, things I haven't done and things I should do. I understand fear, in some ways I'm a coward. I often do not know what to do or where I'm going, but I know something needs to be done.

My call to action wasn't just a call for marches and parades, though they have their place, it was more a call for lots of little things to be done. Little things add up to big things, like a snowball rolling down a hill. We need to be more out, more open, more vocal. Use our voices, make them heard. To have pride in who we are. To work alone as best we can and work together too. inaction and apathy are our foes, but even the smallest action is valuable.

And yes, some things are very scary, but sometimes we have to do scary things and fight our fear. I am no Emancipator, but I will try to participate in some small way in our emancipation as a group.

"Once more into the breach...."

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.
--
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry 'God for Harry, England, and Saint George!'

William Shakespeare, Henry V Act 3, Scene 1

[stephanie100]

GO Veronica but as i have said before this has to be world wide not just USA/UK
PM me girl lets talk
Steph

[jenni_xx]

I admire you for expressing what you have in this thread Veronica. I strongly agree with your reasons for doing so. I myself posted a comment on this board a few days ago that in essence said the same thing. I do believe that if all crossdressers were strong, courageous enough to be out in the open, then this would (eventually) have a diluting affect upon society in general. If every 10th man is a crossdresser (like we are lead to believe), then seeing one out of every 10 men in public in feminine attire would (I believe) lead to people in general becoming exposed to crossdressing which would naturally lead to a greater interest, understanding, and acceptance of crossdressing as a whole.

Having said this, I did find your posts quite aggressive, and the stance that you are taking to be quite confrontational. Taking such a confrontational, aggressive stance would, in my opinion, be a mistake. I don't regard us crossdressers as aggressive people, and thus taking this stand would ascribe this very connotation to crossdressers in general, which is surely a bad thing. On the other hand, I greatly admire Eddie Izzard for example, who laces (expuse the pun) his crossdressing and his overall demeaner with comedy, and as we all know, getting people to laugh is one sure fire way of getting those people to like them.

I do believe that slowly and surely society is becomming more and more acceptable in nature as time goes on. For this reason, I remain a tad perplexed by your comment of wanting the next generation of t-folk to have it better than I did. Trust me, this will happen anyway, just as you have had it better than the t-folk who went before you.

I have had the courage to come out to my girlfriend, who has been absolutely fantastic and responded in a way I could have only ever dreamed of. But I have not, nor do not possess, the courage to come out to other friends, at work, or towards my family (at least, not yet anyway). My father is an older generation than I, and thus holds many old-fashioned values. Regarding work, in all honesty, while there is no reason for me not to tell my work-colleagues about my crossdressing (I don't think I would lose my job over it), equally there is no reason for me to tell them either. And only yesterday, while sitting outside a bar, enjoying a few drinks and some food, one of my female friends pointed out a "girl" who looked like a man, which naturally lead to a conversation about "those tranny-whatever-they-are-called-type people" which wasn't exactly positive in nature. My girlfriend, who was sat next to me, firmly grasped my leg - an unspoken sign of reassurance between the two of us ensued (which I greatly appreciated) - but neither of us said a word that in any way contradicted with the negativity that was spewing forth from the lips of the people with whom I was surrounded. Does that make me a hypocrit? Am I weak for not standing up for who I am? Yes I, probably am. But that is the nature of the beast I'm afraid. I am a sensitive person, I am feminine in my outlook, which therefore means that I am naturally passive, and these are qualities which I believe the majority of cross-dressers share. They are in and of themselves good qualities, and they are qualities that you, Veronica, are asking us to cast aside in your call to get us to stand up and fight. In other words, while I do share in your ideological quest for acceptance, I am not prepared to deny the traits that make up who I actually am in order to gain this acceptance. For some reason, a radical, extremist tag which would be ascribed to such a stand-up-and-fight attitute just doesn't sit well with who we are or what we represent. I guess what I am saying is that we need to find another way in our goal for acceptance...

[Sandra]

I've always said the best type of advocacy you can do is to go somewhere "dressed". And I mean, the regular (non LGBT) places and events, where you get to intermingle with the general public. Jaie

Great answer.

Veronica, my SO has done most of what you have said in your thread, she is 24/7 CD not TS and is out there in the public, if more girls did this then "joe public" would accept more and see that you are normal .

[Melanie R]

Veronica,

I am with you all the way. Peggy and I will be seen nationally in September on WE as the advocates for our community. The public will see Melanie at home and out in public. All of the suggestions provided by members of this board recently were addressed in the script of this documentary. Yes, we will face repercusions in our community. We will lose friends and family members but so be it. There may even be threats to our lives as has happened before. Hopefully we will also educate many. Melanie as well as many other members of our community will walk with our TG float for the 14th year in the Houston Pride Parade on July 24th. A TG , Phyllis Frye, this year is the Grand Marshall of the parade - a first in the US - and yes, we are in redneck country but proud of who we are. Last week one of our community who is a police sargeant came out to the Houston Police Dept. that he was having SRS and would be beginning the real life test as Julia in the next two weeks. The Houston Police Dept. is standing behind Julia all the way but the comments on all the local radio talk shows show how ignorent the public is. Our Houston TG community is standing behind Julia all the way.

Hugs,

Melanie

[EricaCD]

Hi! First let me say I salute the girls here who have resolved to bring about an increased degree of acceptance for the CD/TS/TG community. I wish you all well in your endeavors, but I will not be joining you by outing myself fully and insisting that society take note.

First things first: In this matter I make an enormous distinction between a garden variety crossdresser (such as myself) and a TS/TG/fulltime CD. I understand perfectly that in the case of truly transgendered individuals, the right to determine your own gender identity should be an imperative. For such individuals I can see the parallels to the civil rights movement. Not necessarily so for "ordinary" crossdressers. As Erica my choice of attire and appearance is, of course, limited by social norms with which I do not agree, but for me this is not tantamount to society denying me a fundamental right!

Therefore, when I look at the risk/reward balance of insisting on social acceptance of my fem side, well to put it simply this is not the fight for me. Sorry to not be able to be of more overt assistance, and I trust that my occasional forays out and limited exposure to the non-CD world will help advance the cause of acceptance in a modest way.

A final word of suggestion: Our more activist friends might want to think through the implications of creating a "you're-with-us-or-against-us" mindset in relating to those of us who do not intend to leave our closeted existence behind. This thread began to develop a nasty tilt in that direction for a little while. The fact that we do not share your sense of urgency in bringing about social change, and may therefore not be prepared to risk jobs, marriages, family relationships and friendships, does not mean that we are cowards.

Final note: I for one absolutely do NOT believe that a cd, by virtue of remaining in the closet, hinders the advancement of social acceptance of crossdressers. By way of example, all of us here draw comfort, self-confidence and inspiration from this forum, which is largely comprised of closeted CDs!

I was going to say "Just my $0.02" but this turned out so long I'm gonna make it "$0.03". Or does the price go down the longer it gets - I can never remember....

Erica

[Sophia Rearen]

Well said Erica. In essence, why would a cd, who is content with 10% of the time being "her" want to risk 100% of "his" life? Makes sense. However, there are other girls, and I'm not exactly sure how many, so I'll be careful with words, that are wanting and desiring to be more than a closet CD. So, Veronica is offering words of inspiration that may help some.

[~Dee~]

i dont think that there is anything eternally wrong with being closeted .. the only time that i dont like that kind of situation is when its hurting someone at the same time.
if you are happy and joyful being in the closet, i dont see any problem with that in the slightest. just be careful of the splinters.

if people do want to go out and about and they want acceptance then the truth of the matter is that something needs to be done about that.
i think that the best way to have that happen is to get out there are educate people .. i dont think people need to preach and wave their arms around on the street ... just getting out there and meeting people and having them understand a little more once you leave, its all a step forward.

its not like its going to change in a week or two .. but i do think that the attitude will slowly change.

[midwest GG]

Well Veronica, as a SO of a CDer, I am ok with his CDing. However, we did talk about it, and there is no way that we want our children to be affected by her dressing in any way, shape, or form. If that means that he has to hide it forever, so be it. Our first concern is our children's happiness and thier wellbeing with piers. Someday is along time away, but, someday they can know, just not at the ages of 8, 5, and 4 years old. That is not fair to them. My SO also doesn't want anyone else to know. Maybe he is a hypocrit, but, we just worry about us, and not anyone else. Most times, if you try to push your views on someone else, it just comes back to bite you in the butt later. There is always going to be discrimination, no matter how hard the world trys to fight it. Gays have been trying to change outlook of the community for many many years, and there are still millions of people out in teh world who don't want to know, or see it. That is their own opinion. I think it is great for CDers to go out into public feeling comfortable with themselves, but in a high class town of 1200 people, that will never happen, at least in my lifetime. That's ok though. Part of the excitement is hiding it anyway! I love having our "closet" relationship that no one in the world knows about!
I am not trying to affend anyone, just telling you our view, that's it!

[Ms. Donna]

Based on my personal experiences, Dawn's comments are fairly representative of the general attitudes I've encountered with regards to this topic. Given this, I'll reply to her posts, but my answers are not directed specifically to her. My answers are towards the general attitudes expressed therein.

What's with you and militancy? Do you ever smile and enjoy? Just chill girl and don't get your panties in a wad.

Why is wanting to make a difference and fighting for what is right always characterized as militancy? Why are people willing to speak up and support an issue characterized as militant?

Our panties are 'in a wad' because we are tired of being marginalized. We're tired of being told who we should be and how we should be it.

You say 'just chill'... Why? What will change/improve by sitting back and doing nothing?

I've learned a lot here about what others have to address in their lives. I'll admit at first I was kinda of intolerant because my life is different than many here, but I've learned and mellowed.

Which means what? How is your life that different? Are you somehow immune or insulated from the intolerance of society? And what have you learned that has allowed you to 'mellow'?

My life is 'different' as well from many here. I don't 'dress up' or try to pass as a girl. I identify as Genderqueer and don't consider myself as either a man or woman. I do crossdress insofar as I wear almost exclusively woman's clothing, but my presentation is more androgenous than feminine. I get looks and overhear the odd "What's that - a guy or a girl?" comment from people. I'm this way every day: home, work, whatever - not an hour here or there. This is my life all the time.

(Sorry, but this one is specifically for Dawn: about what were you intolerant?) The only intolerance I have is for intolerance itself.

Do you have an SO? If so, have you made your stand?

I'll be married for 19 years this year (known my wife for 23 years) and have two daughters.

Have I made my stand? As I said, I'm me all the time. At home, at work, at school with the kids, out with friends. Has it been / is it easy? No, but then nothing of value ever is. My wife vacillates between acceptance / tolerance / anger and probably a bunch of other feelings for which we don't even have words. She gets that this is who I am and it's not going to go away. It's not perfect and at times it seems downright dysfunctional, but we make this work because we care for each other. My girls accept me for me and know that I'm not like all the other daddys.

Have I made my stand? I am 'out' at work - more by action than word. As far as I can tell, I'm the only openly 'Trans' person in our building - possibly the firm. I spoke with our HR dept and expressed my desire to follow the woman's dress code - business casual sans the skirt or dress (just not my thing). Their response was positive and so I do this with the support of my employer: a large NY based investment bank with offices worldwide. I didn't just 'show up in a dress', I did things from within the system and as a result, I make it easier for the next person to do so.

Have I made my stand? I am 'out' by word to many people in my life, several coworkers know my deal, as do my parents, some close friends and other individuals with whom I interact (hair stylist, salesgirls, etc.) If asked respectfully, I'll take the time to explain it to people who ask about me. Ignorant dolts, however, are politely invited to crawl off and fornicate with themselves. I'll not waste my time with people who haven't the capacity to learn.

Have I made my stand? Every day, people get to see - through me - that the lines between 'man' and 'woman' are not as neat and clean as they might like to believe. They get to see that we are not just the crazy trannies on the Jerry Springer show. They get to see and know that we are people with lives, jobs, families, hopes and aspirations - just like them.

Have I made my stand? I'd like to think I've at least taken a few steps in that direction.

Et tu?

Well,Veronica, you take the fight to the people. I support you marching right up to WalMart and Target and demanding your constitutional right to buy makeup.
NO MASCARA NO PEACE!

This is flat out patronizing (no surprise) and very typical. Sit back, chill and mellow all you would like. If this isn't something you deem as important, than continue doing exactly what you are doing. But do not make a mockery of someone elses convictions.

It wasn't until the gays got sick and tired of the crap that they were able to effect a change. Homosexuality used to be classified in the DSM as a mental disorder. ECT was considered an 'accepted' treatment for this 'disorder' in the misguided attempt to 'cure' them. Eventually, they organized themselves and started to raise public awareness about who and what they were. It became clear that these were not 'sick' people and that when given half a chance, they functioned as well as anyone else in society. So well, in fact, that homosexuality was removed from the DSM completely. To be homosexual no longer meant one was sick.

Had they sat back and chilled - remained silent and done nothing - homosexuality would still be a mental illness and the rights which they now have would have never been realized. Is their 'fight' over, not in the least - but they have made a very real and significant change to society.

Why are we worthy of less? Gender Identity Disorder is recognized as a mental disorder in the DSM-IV. Transvestic Fetishism (crossdressing) is classified as a paraphlia - a sexual deviation. Why are we content with this - to be seen as 'sick'?

We are fodder for the sensationalized daytime television 'talk' shows. Nighttime television usually portrays us negatively - typically as psychopaths of some sort. Ditto for Hollywood. Rare is the show where we are represented with respect and dignity.

And it is not just the transgendered who 'suffer' due to the oppressive gender system. Boys who are not the traditional 'rough and tumble' type become socially ostracized as 'sissys' and 'faggots'. Girls fair no better with impossible feminine standards as the norm and a system of enforcement where non-conformers become social pariahs. And bog help them if they actually are Transgender as it will take most a good 30+ years before they can admit to themselves who they are.


Again, why are we content to be marginalized?

Moreover, why are we content to allow anyone to be marginalized?


As I said in another post, it is not specifically about crossdressers or the transgendered. Almost everyone has felt the negative effects of the oppressive gender system at some point in their lives. Maybe we simply experience it to a larger degree, but the rigidity of the current socially defined gender roles is an issue that effects everyone.


Nobody is saying that you have to walk around and carry a banner - there are others who will do that. But at least stop hiding all the time. You don't have to come out to the world, but just try being honest about yourself - even if it's a little bit. The salesgirls do not care if the clothes or makeup are for you or not. So they know you wear panties? Big deal... What difference does it make? Do you think they're posting a news-flash somewhere? Do you really think you're the first to come in there to shop? Do you think you'll be the last?

Being out and about - doing your day-to-day life - can be enough to make a difference. It shows people that we exist, that we lead regular lives. It helps to challenge the assumptions and misconceptions that society has regarding 'gender variant' individuals.


Look, I completely get the POV of the CD-only contingent and I support your decisions with regards to what is right for you. But do realize that for those of us who in some way live this every day, to sit back and do nothing is simply not an option. We constantly butt up against this - it is a part of out daily lives. And like any group facing marginalization and intolerance, there comes a point when one can no longer continue to just 'take it'.

I agree with Erica vis fostering a "you're-with-us-or-against-us" mindset. We all need to do what is right for us. If not taking action - no matter how small that action might be - is right for you, great; but do not patronize and mock those of us who want to effect a change.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[Butterfly Bill]

I go out every day and try to make it so everybody I interact with has a positive experience with a man in a dress. And keep doing it every day, one person at a time, and every day I have more and more people smiling at me and greeting me when they recognize me. That's my basic method for bringing about change.

[tekla west]

I too once upon a time thought that for TGs the rights were critical, and for CDs less so. But my political work has taught me that the rights of one are the rights of all. To stop one is to stop all.

I'm done with the closet, whatever it cost me to get out was - and this is the WORST part - a price simply defered. Sooner or later. It all comes out in the wash girls, and we all know that.

Freedom might not be free, but the price is sure as heck far less than opression, slavery, and lying. Not only to ourselves, but to everyone we are around also. Everyone you LIE to is paying a price also. So think of them again.

your pal, tekla

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

There are lots of things you can do without having to be out of the closet, or even venturing out of the house (although I heartly agree with what both Veronica and Ms. Donna have said).

You can write to your local politicians -- even if you use a pseudonym, you still vote -- and they know that every one who writes them represents a significant number who don't.

You can write other people as well. When I see an insensitive or uninformed article in the press, I write the reporter (and their editor), explain why I thought the article was problematic and point them toward the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association's excellent supplemental styleguide on LGBT issues. When I see an article that was sensitive and well-done, I write the reporter (and their editor) to offer my appreciation. When I go out shopping, I always make a point of writing the store's management to let them know how I was treated (so far only good).

Just remember it's as important give praise when we're treated well as it is to complain when we're treated ill.

Unless we're willing to put some effort in ourselves, we're going to be waiting a long time to for others to let us out of the closet. And after all if we're out of the closet, there's a lot more room for clothes.

Most times, if you try to push your views on someone else, it just comes back to bite you in the butt later. There is always going to be discrimination, no matter how hard the world trys to fight it. Gays have been trying to change outlook of the community for many many years, and there are still millions of people out in teh world who don't want to know, or see it.

It's true that there's still discrimination against gays (and there probably will always will be some residual bigotry), but today they aren't routinely arrested, fired or carted off to mental institutions they way they were before Stonewall 40 years ago. Today gays and lesbians are corporate and government leaders. Today corporate America is courting the gay market because they know there's money to be made there. Today survey research shows acceptance for gays increases every year, particularly among younger people. I'd say that's significant progress -- and in less than two generations. So if we're willing to fight for it, I'm confident we can gain similar acceptance. Tolerance doesn't mean you have to like someone you think is "different" it just means you're willing to live and let live.

[Delila]

I agree about the coming out part, but unfortunatly its just not time YET there are just too many biggots out there. I live in Colorado which seems pretty open minded but just the other day I heard some guys saying how they wanted to beat the crap out of a crossdresser just because they didnt like it. How does one stand up against such undeserved hate. Sadly there is not much we can do at the moment then stay somewhat hidden. I say for the moment because whether it is related or not the whole gay rights issue will make or break c/ds being open. I may be wrong but thats just my opinion.

[Sharon]

I too once upon a time thought that for TGs the rights were critical, and for CDs less so. But my political work has taught me that the rights of one are the rights of all. To stop one is to stop all.

I'm done with the closet, whatever it cost me to get out was - and this is the WORST part - a price simply defered. Sooner or later. It all comes out in the wash girls, and we all know that.

Freedom might not be free, but the price is sure as heck far less than opression, slavery, and lying. Not only to ourselves, but to everyone we are around also. Everyone you LIE to is paying a price also. So think of them again.

your pal, tekla

Good for you, Tekla is it?

[TGMarla]

I'm single, but for damned sure I'm not going marry some socially conservative woman in hopes that living with her would cure me and then tell her after 30 years of marriage and then whine about how she's not accepting.

I married my wife because I love her, not because as a socially conservative woman, I was hoping for some "cure". So please stop with the broad generalizations that just don't hold water. I'm in the closet. I'm not ashamed of that. I might perhaps wish that my situation was somehow different, but I don't lose any sleep over it. I agree in principle with most everything you have stated, but I'm not about to compare the lot of crossdressers in our society to the plight of colored people in the 20th century and before. We are not put down as 3rd class citizens by a racial majority who thinks themselves better people by some genetic miracle of fortune. We are people who happen to bend the fabric of sexual and social norms. This makes people uncomfortable. I understand that, and I have no doubts that many or most people will not change, no matter how much education is out there.

For some of us, the need to be out there among people is very strong. It is not that way for everyone. I dress for my own gratification, not for anyone else's. I'm not trying to fool people into thinking that I'm female. I merely like to emulate females by making myself appear that way. I don't care if anyone ever witnesses it. I do not feel that put out that society in general does not tolerate it.

Rights? I don't require the right to wear a skirt in public. I can do it if I feel like it. I don't want to wear one to work, except in my dreams. I like the fact that skirts and dresses are for women, and not for men. That's why when I dress up, I do so as a woman. Isn't that the whole point? So while I'm hopeful for a more tolerant society, I'm just not on board with the whole revolution thing.

[Amelie]

I think the answer is right in front of all of yall eyes. The computer.

Today, one doesn't have to march and shout to be heard. The computer and this forum could be the way to gain some things you seek.

We all know that bloggers are a very powerful tool in politics. Bloogers can be just as powerful as network news channels.

Blogs are kust words on a computer site or sites, just the same as we, at cd.com are just words on a computer site.

I don't have the knowledge for how it can be done, but maybe there is a way of using cd.com as a power tool in gatting your rights. Maybe if this site. which has thousands of members can be a voice as strong as the bloggers.

Maybe if we use cd.com collectively as one voice of many people, maybe at least some politicians will take notice, politicians do take notice when there are large groups talking to them and cD.com is a large group. And most won't even have to come out of the closet in order to be heard.

I don't know if this could work, but hey, it's right there in front of you.

[BlueKat]

Rights? I don't require the right to wear a skirt in public. I can do it if I feel like it. I don't want to wear one to work, except in my dreams. I like the fact that skirts and dresses are for women, and not for men. That's why when I dress up, I do so as a woman. Isn't that the whole point? So while I'm hopeful for a more tolerant society, I'm just not on board with the whole revolution thing.

I agree 100% Marla. This whole "rally the troops" routine is just silly and a waste of energy. Bottom line, unconditional acceptance is simply *not* going to happen in our lifetime.

But, if T-activism is what you feel called to do...hey, whatever... Just don't expect a bunch of others to jump on your bandwagon.

[CaptLex]

I agree about the coming out part, but unfortunatly its just not time YET there are just too many biggots out there.

I don't think there will ever be a right time. No one is ever going to turn to us and say, "Okay, we're ready to be more tolerant now."

If women had waited until men decided it was time to allow them to vote, blacks had waited until it was time to be allowed to sit at the front of the bus or gays had waited until the authorities thought it was time to stop arresting them just for congregating in the same place, these groups would still be waiting for things to change.

If we wait for the right time, we'll wait forever.

[Kimberley]

I take exception to the inference that I am somehow less because I am "in the closet." That is total BS.

I am out to my wife. Her approach is if you are going to pursue that lifestyle, I am gone; with the house, the cars, the pensions all of it. So, I am supposed to come out of the closet and march in the streets? I am supposed to toss away 35 years of hard work for an ideal? GET A GRIP!!!

This isnt about the individual, this is about human rights at large.
When the legal system treats everyone the same, then some gain will have been made.
When the schools in Lubbock Texas teach diversity, some gain will have been made.
When Jerry Falwell stands up and says love your neighbour even if he is in a dress, gains will have been made.
When I can walk into the boardroom in a skirt and blouse, gains will have been made.
When the camera scans Oprah's audience and passes over me enfemme without stopping, gains will have been made.

Acceptance cannot be forced, if that were the case there would be no more gay bashing, no more racism, no more bigotry because all these and more are espoused in law as basic human rights. Change has to come because of societal acceptance, not beating drums or burning our bras. (mine are too expensive to burn anyway).

Kimberley.

Oh, and I am not above signing my full male name either. More than a few on these forums know who I am as a male. But why? Is that who I really am? I dont think sooooo.

[Sophia Rearen]

This isnt about the individual, this is about human rights at large.
When the legal system treats everyone the same, then some gain will have been made.
When the schools in Lubbock Texas teach diversity, some gain will have been made.
When Jerry Falwell stands up and says love your neighbour even if he is in a dress, gains will have been made.
When I can walk into the boardroom in a skirt and blouse, gains will have been made.
When the camera scans Oprah's audience and passes over me enfemme without stopping, gains will have been made.

Acceptance cannot be forced, if that were the case there would be no more gay bashing, no more racism, no more bigotry because all these and more are espoused in law as basic human rights. Change has to come because of societal acceptance, not beating drums or burning our bras. (mine are too expensive to burn anyway).

Kimberley.

Can you get "there" without activism?

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Rights? I don't require the right to wear a skirt in public. I can do it if I feel like it. I don't want to wear one to work, except in my dreams. I like the fact that skirts and dresses are for women, and not for men. That's why when I dress up, I do so as a woman. Isn't that the whole point? So while I'm hopeful for a more tolerant society, I'm just not on board with the whole revolution thing.

Hmmmm

When I say "right", i'm not talking about dressing in public, or walking into the drugstore and buying makeup because we already have that. As far as I know there are no laws against crossdressing still on the books anywhere (in the US). What I'm talking about is things like employment. I don't want some CD who is content to dress at home to be accidentally found out and then fired, harassed or whatnot. a la Peter Oiler. I want those who are full time in whatever way to be not discrimanted against in housing, employment, etc.

For that to happen, we need human rights laws protecting us. We have that in Illinois. We have that because people stood up and fought for it. How else is it going to happen.

If you want a more tolerant society, how do we acheive that? By hiding, and hoping people won't notice us? Or just hoping things will get better without us having to do anything?

No, we have to do stuff. It doesn't have to be marches on washington or anything, like I said, little things add up.


Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.