Divorce

[Stephanie Sometimes]

Hi Paula,

It sounds as if you have been through so much in just the last year and now are facing the emotional and financial turmoil of a divorce. Sometimes it seems like life is a never ending obstacle course with new challenges appearing just as soon as you have overcome one difficult period in your life, right?. I hope that this current hurdle is one that you can navigate with a minimum of distress and it leads to a time where you can concentrate on the positive aspects of becoming the woman that you obviously were meant to be. Being true to yourself is a tremendous source of inner strength and you must be tapping into that given the progress that you have made in your transition.

Take care of yourself and keep letting us all know how things are going. It’s great that you are able to share your journey on this forum. We are rooting for you and wishing you the best.

Big hugs,
Stephanie

[PaulaQ]

@Alice - Thanks hon, and I'm also glad to hear you are "divorcing" your family. From what you've shared, they are toxic people and no relationship with them will ever work. You are better off without them, which is really, really sad.

@Barbara - You are right. A wise person told me last night that I can't control what others do - all I can do is keep my side of the street clean.

@Patty - thanks so very much hon. Once I'm through this, I really do believe it'll be the worst part of transition.

@DahliaLeigh - Thanks hon! To be honest, as long as I end up with enough resources to transition and not go bankrupt, she can have everything else. If I get through this with my life, a place to live, and a car, I'm happy.

@Stephanie - I honestly think my life is like a game of frogger, played at 2x speed. It's just all reflexes. There's no strategy, just reflexes.

[kittypw GG]

Yep your marriage failure was 100% your fault Paula.

Vanny (grrr)

Paula IS 100% responsible for the divorce. Paula got married as a man with a women who wanted to be married to a man. Get it?? I flat out told my husband that if he were a women in a mans body that the deal was off. I was up front and honest with him, he was never up front and honest with me. Plus Paula can't even wait until the ink dries on the divorce before taking up a relationship with someone else. How respectful is that? There have been other deceptive behavior in Paula's marriage as well so Vanny get off your high horse and stop being so bitter yourself. Grrr right back at you.

[Vanessa Rose]

Kitty Dear,

Why must you think we need your "GOD ROD" to judge her. And if that is the opinion of how marriage works, and the "BLAME" then I can't believe your opinion because that word is from pain and is not beneficial to move on. Blame is an excuse to stay mad and pick sides and whatever. Mine costs me much more than 1000/mth. Yep. That is what blame does. After all has been settled after all documents signed and after under the law, they agreed to everything. To blame or need to place judgement, Is to not let go and I have and will not do this any more. Nor will I look at any relationship and say who is to blame.

I think it fair to let whomever's God, take on the hateful or vengeful role vs any here yes? It makes us who cast this hate seem, less than reasonable but worse yet, it means that they have not moved on if still casting these nasty accusations

AND AS FAR as not letting the ink dry.... When is the exact time? Are you going to determine when is the right time or just point your finger and scoff? Really. I ask you. Please tell us exactly what and when then? YOU CANT. What is the time needed to do and deal with any of this stuff that has been back tabled for so many years.

Kitty,

There are no rule books on this. There are no formulaS to make this right for anyone. There are no words to express what bottling any feelings up for years WILL DO TO A PERSON.

THe same feelings you have expressed in your finger pointing and "blame" assignment are I would think appearing as raw as Paula's need to do whatever she needs to do. BUT SHE DOES NOT MEET YOUR APPROVAL or meet your timeline and or appropriate amount of blame. Get a grip!

It does not matter when ink dried. Paula knows her situation and for what it's worth, has had to do what she feels is the best course. I don't need to defend her but I do need to point out again, that if everyone throwing blame and pointing fingers would look at their own raw feelings perhaps those would be better dealt with first vs pushing this rubbish on another that you HAVE NO PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE ABOUT ITHER THAN THIS FORUM.

I am going to rest like a baby now. Why? Because I did what was best! I know I have done my best to DO WHAT WAS RIGHT VS WHAT WAS BITTER AND SCORNFUL AND RAGE-FILLED.

Perhaps getting a grip on ones own life would be more appropriate than this kind of non-sense

I will let others add their thought.

Vanny

[Ellie52]

Paula
As far as I am concerned.
D I V O R C E
Dressed In Violation Of Relationships Code (of) Ethics
It causes far more problems than it needs to.

I am so sorry to hear about the break up of your marriage. I hope there is light at the end of the tunnel and it aint a train coming.

Best wishes... Ellie

[Caden Lane]

Perhaps Paula is in a hurry to be in a loving, understanding, accepting relationship. Perhaps that's just as respectful as her former spouse outing her, against her will on multiple occasions. But I suppose that was Paula's fault as well? You must live in a perfect little paradigm where its easy to reveal gender dysphoria, where ultimatums like you gave your husband are an example of true Love. I mean, how is giving an ultimatum like that an example of Love or understanding?

I suppose it never occurred to you that your husband might have been resistant in telling you the truth because deep down he knew you'd have that sort of pent up frustration, anger, bias and resentment and acceptance, true acceptance, would never be something you were capable of. So with him fearful of that, who'd blame a spouse for harboring secrets.

Paula did violate some trust in her marriage. I think we all understand that, and we do not see her former spouse as the villain here. Yes, some of the spouses actions were distasteful. But does that mean paula should pine away for a woman that no longer wants her, and was willing to exhibit such vengeful action as outing her? I think not. She set some courses of action in motion, just like Paula did. But spouting vile rhetoric and blame fixes nothing.

[PaulaQ]

Paula IS 100% responsible for the divorce. Paula got married as a man with a women who wanted to be married to a man. Get it??

Well, I do. I guess it is all my fault. All I can really say in my defense is that I've never wanted this. I have always just wanted to be a normal person, and accepted as such. I tried to be one - acting the part, even though I never felt it. I was in the wrong body. I know that many don't view me as being a normal person though, although that's all I've ever wanted to be. I tried desperately to lead that life. But I am not, and I cannot. I know that I will NEVER really be accepted. I am simply not one of you. I'm sorry, so sorry - I never asked for this. Believe me, if I could be like you - I would.

At least you view me as a human being - many do not. Some few view me as a monster. Such is my life. Why would anyone choose this? It is certainly my worst nightmare.

I flat out told my husband that if he were a women in a mans body that the deal was off. I was up front and honest with him, he was never up front and honest with me.

In all fairness Kitty, I'm not the same person as your husband. I'm not sure it's fair to lay his sins at my door - I have plenty of my own, of course.

Plus Paula can't even wait until the ink dries on the divorce before taking up a relationship with someone else. How respectful is that?

Well technically, I took up with someone before the ink was even on the divorce papers! I have no defense for this. I'm not pining away for my wife not because I never loved her - I did and do. I hope some of my feelings about her come through in various things I've written here. I gave up all hope on the relationship when she told me I no longer deserved to wear my wedding ring, and then kicked me out of my home and left me to live or die on my own. (It really hurt about the ring - I hadn't given up, I wanted to find some way to make it work.) I don't mean to be overly dramatic, but in retrospect, I'm still somewhat surprised I made it out alive. I am certain that had I not started HRT so soon after leaving, I wouldn't have made it. I'm frequently scared - I am going through the worst thing I have ever gone through in my life. When someone reached out to me - it was irresistible. As with everything else in my life though, I am sure I'll be judged for this too.

There have been other deceptive behavior in Paula's marriage as well so Vanny get off your high horse and stop being so bitter yourself. Grrr right back at you.

I've lived a life of deception. It seemed like the safer thing to do. I can't imagine coming out as trans as a kid in the 60's or 70's. I can't imagine surviving that in Texas where I was born and grew up. I did introduce myself as a liar in my intro post here. I guess I am one of the more dishonest people on the forum.

If it makes any difference, several years ago, my wife went through a terrible crisis that resulted from something that happened when she was in high school, and she faced terrible depression. This created an enormous strain on our marriage - it was the worst crisis we'd faced as a couple prior to my coming out. I tried to support her during her troubles. I don't guess it makes any difference though.

edit: I forgot to mention that I got word today that my case really was finally filed. Apparently a paperwork snafu delayed the filing. But it's filed now. I am told we got a liberal judge, which is good news for me, I hope.

[Erica Anne]

Paula,
I wish you the best of luck and hopefully you can get through this without the stress and anger which is typical. Matters not what the reason is, but what transpires during the event can be brutal. Stick to your guns and you should be fine. I never backed down in my divorce and I was pushing to go to court. Unfortunately I was not overly satisfied with the outcome. It is what it is. It can be a roller coaster, I hope yours is a smooth one.

Hugs,
Erica

[Amanda M]

To Kitty, Paula, and all of those who posted on this thread. Sometimes, I don't have a lot of time for the Bible. I am not a practising Christian. However, there is some great ancient wisdom, such as "Let he who is without blemish, cast the first stone" and "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

What I am saying - or trying to, is this. I suspect that Paula, and her wife, entered into their marriage with love for each other. I do NOT know, really, if Paula knew at that time, what road she was going to take, and for Paula's wife, the recent revelations must have been devastating. Me, I'm just a plain vanilla crossdresser. My wife is fine with that, and I am so fortunate. That is OUR situation. That said, if I said tha I want to transition, I could perfectly well understand if there was a backlash. Circumstances alter cases.

All I can say is that I hope for both of you, that there is the best possible outcome in the circumstances. With the caveat, Paula, that you must make SURE that you get the best legal advice to ensure that you are not financially destroyed. Don't let that happen, however your guilt feelings (if you have them) are. Look after yourself, because trust me, the system will not.
Hugs. Amanda.

[PaulaQ]

I suspect that Paula, and her wife, entered into their marriage with love for each other. I do NOT know, really, if Paula knew at that time, what road she was going to take, and for Paula's wife, the recent revelations must have been devastating.

We did. I didn't know at the time, 20 years ago, that I'd transition. I hadn't even CDed in 4 years - I was sure I never would again. I mean, I didn't WANT to do that. I didn't understand how powerless I truly was over my gender identity. I didn't understand powerlessness at all really. I do now - and I sit here typing this humbled and humiliated. Had I known, perhaps I'd have come out when I gained sobriety 24 years ago. My life would've been unrecognizably different. In 1989, the information available was so limited, and Texas was even more hostile than it is now. I don't regret my marriage, neither does my wife - she just wants it back, but with him, not me. I can understand this and respect it, but it makes me sad, given the impossibility of it.

I do have a good attorney. I'll follow his advice, of course. I need to insure that I preserve enough resources for transition. If I fail that, I die, simple as that. My wife doesn't acknowledge this as a reality, despite my prior suicide attempt while I lived with her. I reached the point of "Transition, or Die." I have no choice but to follow this path. I don't know that I'll survive it even if I complete transition - far too many of us do not. It's just the only plan anyone's offered me that seems to have any hope of addressing my plight. It's a terrible plan though!

Seriously - why couldn't I have gotten cancer, instead of being trans?

edit: One question for Kitty, or really any other person who'd care to comment. Does anyone here really think that I knowingly, deliberately, and willfully deceived my wife for 20 years, and simply dropped the deception for selfish reasons? That's a fairly incredible assertion! Why on earth do you speculate I'd do that - what possible motive could I have for it?

[Dana_Drake]

I don't think Paula needs to justify or explain, and I doubt she needs our affirmation. Like anyone going through hard times it helps to tell someone. She faced a hard choice and made a decision. There are some who are able to lead double lives, to play charades. Paula obviously isn't one of those persons. I don't think anyone would choose her fate. Her comment

Seriously - why couldn't I have gotten cancer, instead of being trans?

says it all. Paula, all I can give you is good karma, but I'll send all I can your way.

[Billiejosehine]

Paula seeing what you have been through gives me great strength and courage to move forward with being who I really am. I went into the marriage in self denial and therefore incapable to tell my wife at the time. She is made at me for not giving her the choice and she doesn't know who I am anymore. It was never my plan to device her, but I tried to be a somebody that I was not. My GD has hit me head on, with the divorce happening, and many other issues. I'm left torn and in emotional turmoil. My mother new something was up with me when I was a teen and asked if I needed counseling, I said no, but I wonder what my life would have been like if I made the choice to do something, instead of saying no. Right now I'm left going back and forth between what I want, even though deep down I know what I need to do. You did once say I'm a transition or die moment; I'd rather transition then die; and I have set out a plan for myself. I just can't wait till the dust settles

[kittypw GG]

edit: One question for Kitty, or really any other person who'd care to comment. Does anyone here really think that I knowingly, deliberately, and willfully deceived my wife for 20 years, and simply dropped the deception for selfish reasons? That's a fairly incredible assertion! Why on earth do you speculate I'd do that - what possible motive could I have for it?

Paula I have a great deal of empathy for you, I have told you so. I do not speculate as to the why, what or how. I just said that you not being a man anymore is the reason your marriage is done. You changed the rules not your wife. Forgive me for being sort of confused by you as you have said that it has been a relatively short time that you felt you were a women trapped in a man's body. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that you said you did not feel this way from childhood. Now all of a sudden you are transitioning?? And you are already in another relationship. No wonder your wife is angry. I would not trust that this is the answer for you either. To me it seems like you don't know who you are. That is not a judgment but an observation. I worry that you won't be happy once you get through transition, that you perhaps are not being realistic? Whatever............ what I think really doesn't matter. I don't know you or your wife personally. Just stay in therapy and work on yourself. ok?

[Vanessa Rose]

Let the Blame die and new hope open an eye to possibilities and reasons to fly high, down low or up in the sky...


I am happy today that others have jumped in too, not to defend, but to push back the not so fair side in this discussion.


I wonder if you GG's judge yourself, in the same manner that you judge. I read people for a living, and do not think so... Whatever the reason for such hatred, it will not come from me further.


I am done with this discussion and have said all that I can to highlight what I felt are the faults with the finger wagging and blame ridden estrogen balloons here.


Enough said..


Vanny

[PaulaQ]

@kitty - I know that many here and in the world will never accept me as a woman. I've had gender issues since childhood. I am the type of person who desperately wants approval from others. Coming out at a young age didn't seem survivable so I buried this stuff until it exploded last year.

I know though that as I transition, I am trading my life in the normal world, indeed my very personhood, for the ability to be comfortable in my own skin. I have no real choice, I'll die before I'll go back. But if I'm not a real woman, nor a real man, then am I even a person? Seems unlikely.

It's sad, I lament losing the normal world, part of me really wants to fit in. But I never have, so I'm not sure why I even still care, but I do.

[Zylia]

I don't know what you mean Paula, you're one of the realest persons on the board It also really is none of anyone's business what you decide to do with your love life. Let him (and her) who is without sin cast the first stone and all that.

All the best!

[heatherdress]

Paula - I also experienced a painful divorce from an abusive spouse - abusive to both me and my children. I can only offer my sympathy and assurance that this difficult time will pass and you will be much happier. Get a good lawyer. Work out. Go to church. Keep your friends close. Don't let it effect work. Get a therapist. Don't engage your soon-to-be ex. The less emotional proceedings are, the better for both of you. No matter how difficult or unreasonable proceedings get, try to stay positive and focus on your future. Don't blame yourself for things you can't control. Try to accept that you did your best. Get over guilt. Don't look back - look ahead. Good luck.

[kittypw GG]

I read people for a living
vanny

lol that is funny.

[Vanessa Rose]

and I rest my case folks!

[PaulaQ]

Can we limit sniping back and forth in this thread please? I really don't want the moderators to lock it. Thanks.

[Patty-Fay]

Paula IS 100% responsible for the divorce. Paula got married as a man with a women who wanted to be married to a man. Get it??

Well, I do. I guess it is all my fault. All I can really say in my defense is that I've never wanted this. I have always just wanted to be a normal person, …

Er, no – it isn’t all your fault. The “Paula issue” was certainly pivotal, but your wife had a choice, and she made a choice based on her emotional reaction to the situation.

I'll contrast this with my situation – which has nothing to do with crossdressing. My wife and I had a fantastic sex life before we married, and this was rather important to me. I was married once before, and the sex was terrible (I’ll leave that long story for another day) – and I vowed not to make that mistake again. After we were married one month, the sex went from (at least) daily to 3 times a month. In a year or two, it was down to 2-3 times a year, then once every year or two. It’s now been 5-6 years since we last did it.

The relevance of my little story is this: your wife married a man under the expectation he was “normal” (for lack of a better word). I married a woman under the expectation we’d have a good sex life. In both our cases, the situation - and relationship - evolved negatively in unexpected ways. I can blame my wife for the lack of libido (and unwillingness to seek help), and I could use this as an excuse to get out, but I haven’t. I accepted the situation. Your wife could have chosen to accept the unexpected situation that developed in her marriage just as well. We play the cards we are dealt.

[Greenie]

Paula,

I spoke with you when I joined this forum and there were days in which I wish I knew you in person so that I could give you a hug. You were in a really bad place. I honestly think 100% that there are women in this world who cannot deal with the idea of being with someone with gender issues. I don't think it would have worked out with her no matter how hard you tried. I don't think you even had told her when we first talked. You have changed a lot in the last year, I have been here since April I think and have gathered a lot.

The hard part is that it sounds like your wife relied on you a lot in the relationship. I know its hard for you to want to help her. You KNOW that you didn't ask for this and you have tried so hard to maintain taking care of her. Giving her the "life she deserves" you have been very selfless even when realizing that it was a detriment to your own health. A lot of these posters don't know you how I do, so I guess take all comments with a grain of salt.

You are Trans. Admitting that to yourself, let alone her. Was hard. Are you supposed to deny who you are in order to stay with her? I doubt you would be around today if that were the case.

I have heard much fault on her part for the last couple months. Its not her fault you are trans, it's not her fault that she feels cheated out of the life she thought she was going to have, but divorce is not your fault either. Sometimes two people are just not meant to be married.

Thats my 2cents anyway.

[Stephanie Sometimes]

@Stephanie - I honestly think my life is like a game of frogger, played at 2x speed. It's just all reflexes. There's no strategy, just reflexes.

Hey Paula, I know what you mean when life turns into the game of just reflexes, when all you have time to do is react to the crap that gets hurled at us in rapid succession sometimes. It just seems to me that you are beyond that now; you are taking control and making the changes that you need to do. You are awesome gal in what you are doing and an inspiration for many of us on the forum, even those of us who don’t plan on transitioning.

Don’t let the mud slingers get you down as they seem to live in some fantasy world where every marriage is supposed to be some fairly tale and when the marriage fails it must be the fault of the guy that is the CD or TS. The fact is that people change and evolve, circumstances change, shit happens and when one person in the marriage can’t cope with those things the marriage can become unsustainable.

It takes a long time to get over the gender brainwashing that many of us endured growing up. Like you I was born and grew up in the arrogant state of Texas, only quite a few years earlier. I was encouraged and indoctrinated at home and at school to be more manly. My years in junior and senior high school are seared with the memories of being ridiculed for not being manly enough. Fortunately I was mentally tough enough, smart enough and big enough not to get physically bullied but the psychological scars lingered for decades.

Don’t shortchange yourself on the divorce settlement by being too accommodating to your wife and giving her more than her 50%. I know the feeling from experience, 35 years ago in Dallas when my first wife filed for divorce (because she had someone else) I just wanted to get away and start my life over again. I did not hate her even though she was not faithful, I only wanted to move forward in life and get past the sadness of the split. I let her keep the house and a lot of other things while I went off and bought a lesser house consistent with one income. Years later she made out like a bandit on real estate and I wound up losing money. Looking back, I was way too accommodating in the settlement.

Hang tough gal,

Hugs,
Stephanie

[PaulaQ]

@Greenie - thanks for your support hon, I know you are right. I had hoped to find some "middle-path" as others on this forum attempt, but for me it was impossible, and it wouldn't have made my wife any more accepting either. And you are right - I provided a sort of frame of reference and support system for my wife. This required that I didn't change much at all over the years. So when a sudden cascade of changes started happening with me - she simply couldn't relate to me anymore. She was unsure of herself, she didn't know who I was anymore, and she HATED the idea of any amount of femininity in me. It simply couldn't work anymore. My coming out effectively ended the relationship.

@Stephanie - I'll definitely watch out for myself in the settlement. I have to insure I have resources to complete my transition, or all of this will have been for nothing.

@ Both of you - I'm also sometimes surprised at the amount of vitriol here over the ending of someone else's marriage. About half the marriages in the US end in divorce, often over pretty petty and stupid things. Often there's really no fault, just two people who are incompatible. The law in many states recognizes this, but we still insist on finding fault for some reason. SOMEONE must have done something wrong - or it would continue forever happily, right?

I know my transition touches a raw nerve for many GG's here. I understand this, and am quite sympathetic about it. Look - I am the worst case scenario. I was happily married for a long time, NO evidence of anything going on with my gender that the outside world could see, in deep denial mode myself. And then it explodes like a bomb, I come out, we separate four months later, I start transition, and then start a divorce at the beginning of the next year, with lots of unpleasantness between us along the way. I also understand that many trans women, before they start HRT, are often just horrible people to be around. The stress of their GD finally makes them just impossibly nasty, or any of a number of other horrible character flaws. In my case, I was always a really nice guy - my GD was directed inwards in the form of self-loathing and suicidal tendencies, so I was mostly pretty easy to live with, at least compared to so many others I know.

I really don't take it too personally when some of the folks here take me to the woodshed in the thread. I can't help being trans, but I've tried to be as ethical as I can. We can debate, I suppose the morality of starting a relationship six months after separation, but before being legally divorced. But in general, if we are discussing morality, then I'm already damned for being trans, right? So is being trans, and in a relationship that much worse really, than just being trans? I didn't rub my wife's nose in it, someone either violated my trust, or she went snooping around looking to see what I was up to. Well, she didn't like what she found, and I'm very sorry for that, I truly am, but I don't feel much guilt about it either. To my mind the marriage ended in June, when she told me that "I HAD NO RIGHT TO WEAR MY WEDDING BAND ANYMORE". That broke my heart, and I stopped wearing it from that day forward.

Anyway, all of that is between me and my creator, and if he judges me for it, then he does, as is his prerogative.

[Caden Lane]

I just do not see the point in postponing dating once you are separated. If a spouse or partner, kicks you out, insists on a separation/ divorce, then in my mind they've given up any rights or say so in how I manage my life. I mean seriously! What are you supposed to do, sit around wringing your hands wishing she'd take you back even though she has no intention of accepting you as you are?! Life moves on. And if she had wanted you to stay, then by God she shouldn't have pulled the trigger on getting you out. And whether you left on your own accord, or because she forced you, it doesn't matter. Hell, she told you she felt you had no right to wear your weddingband... i think that speaks volumes to her intent, and to where your frame of mind should be as far as new relationships. She set things in motion through her contempt and lack of compassion.

I'very been cast away. I know how it feels. I gave myself a very modest amount of time before I started dating. Not out of respect for her, or some misguided grieving process, but because I wanted my head on straight. And when ppl throw us away, they deserve nothing from us. Not respect, but certainly not loathing. Any emotion wasted on someone who would throw a person away, is wasted emotion.