I'm pretty sure the OP's wife doesn't share this opinion.Originally Posted by Pythos
I'm pretty sure the OP's wife doesn't share this opinion.
It is important to be out of the closet, for those of us who can. Then, people will realize that crossdressing is not all that uncommon, and hopefully be less of a shock for people finding out about a loved ones CDing.
With all of the violence and hate in the world, it is just sad that something as simple as a desire to dress a certain way can be taken so badly.
Juno
What a remarkably immature attitude!
I stand in awe.
Georgie
Got no answers for you (I think that I'm MtF TG??? Who really knows?)
Gosh, been there and separated for 5yrs next week....
It is/was the 'gorilla in the living room'....
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I came out to my family and a friend less than a yr ago.
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Been with my 'near'-ex a couple of times since. (not acknowledging my lack of (shorts/tshirt) /removed body hair.
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That does seem to be the (at least My) problem.... I think like a male & am physically driven like a male, but I've always felt akin conversationally and emotionally to the women (girls) i've know and apparently most of them react as our society mandates them to (taken me almost 50 yrs to Start to Be ME!).
Take a break... Pressuring her won't change her attitude (probably)...
Take a break for yourself... Don't punish/deny/ignore your own feelings either. For what it's worth, I did for over 20 yrs, with occational 'bouts of crossdressing', and her finding the bra/panties literally a couple of times... Didn't make a difference here......
In retrospect, I wasn't honest with my own feelings... and
There Is NO ONE out there that than Hurt You more than YOURSELF...
Let me know what you think.
(neo) kimba
Anyone who quite literally, physically vomits obviously must have been suffering from severe shock.
That was my immediate thought too. Such shock and repulsion upon reading it that she literary vomits at the very thought of it.
Well ... I for sure don't think it's a "red herring" as she is obviously going to feel shocked, betrayed and very hurt about the deceit, and it happening for such a long time ... BUT ... I do agree with you that for some people the CDing itself is even worse than the lying. Is this woman one of those people? We don't know. IMHO the shocking revelation that her husband is a secret transvestite/crossdresser and/or is possibly gay or God only knows what incorrect things she might have been thinking about CDing when she read that bit, could be more likely to make a person who has had a bad experience with it in the past, or has a bad opinion about it or just hates guys (her guy) that do that sort of thing.
Oh my gosh Georgi, I don't know what to say to you.This level of repulsion (be it because of the CDing or the lying) is something that I have only ever heard about and can only imagine how bad it must be for you.
Last edited by Rachel Morley; 07-29-2010 at 10:33 PM.
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The River City Gems - Northern California's largest and most active crossdressing & transgender support group!
I thought I'd share this with those who were considering telling their SOs because one of the major reasons I finally caved in and told her was the constant counseling of the 'tell her, tell her' crowd on this forum. I thought it appropriate to hear an opposing viewpoint.
I think you misunderstand how I presented the letter to her. I took several weeks to compose this letter, then on the morning of July 5th sat next to her as I handed it to her to read so I was there for her to ask questions. I didn't mail her the letter or leave the letter for her to read in my absence. And by the way, the famed how to tell your SO thread proposes just this method of writing it out rather than trying to memorize your spiel and blurt it out from memory.Second, I'd like to see this "nice" four page letter. Nice? I HATE the "letter" gambit. Gutless, thoughtless, and, clueless. Say it don't play it. Think how long someone will be going down that page to hell. And, get a clue what she expects - NOT a letter! How about some conversation... You know, the one you've been skipping since she met you?
Thx,
Georgi
Georgi,
Although my ex did not vomit, for all intents and purposes her reaction was very much the same. After 10 years of trying to sort things out we realized that I could not stop CDing anymore than she could stop being repulsed by the fact that I was a CD and in her mind less than a man. We agreed to disagree and even though I loved her deeply, I knew it was best to move on for both our sakes.
Understandably your wife had a very strong reaction to this and she needs time, however, in the end you need to acknowledge that it is a part of who you are (whether you ever dress again) and she needs to understand that truth as well. Counselling is very important, something that you need to go to together to work through this.
In as much as you want to back away from who you are to keep her in your life that is a fool's dream. She will never believe that it is gone and you will always wish that you had it in your life and eventually resent her for forcing you not to be able to be yourself with the one person in this world who should be able to embrace all of who you are.
You both need to face the fact that this is who you are. How you choose to live your life with each other or apart has yet to be seen, but if you cannot work through this simple fact together then you are in for a whole heap of trouble.
You are who you are and no one should expect that you be other than that. Of course there is a trust broken here and she has to re-evaluate how she feels about you, but to pretend that your CDing is in the past is a big mistake that I feel you will regret.
Accept who you are, be brave enough to stand by that truth and work through it with her. You will either figure it out together and both be better and stronger for it or you will realize that you can no longer be together and both be better for it. Avoiding the truth will fix nothing.
All the best to you and your wife in your journey.
Melissa
What stop do I get off at? Hmmm...
Ok, seriously - do you think when I say "Honey, would you go to talk to the counselor I've been seeing?" I'm displaying an immature attitude? Am I missing something here?
Georgi
No your not missing anything...Some folks are happy all the time and some are just plain bitter...Sorry for the mis happs, Ok things work out for you..
I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.
Thanks to many for their comments on many aspects of this. I'll ramble a bit as I try to gather some of my thoughts in one place.
I know there is a high risk of failure in the long run in quitting crossdressing. But I also know that the pleasures I would get from cd'ing were transitory for me, were not part of an overall TG lifestyle and therefore in my personal prioritization can be pushed way down the scale way below my wife's worth to me. That is, of course, on a rational level and does not account for the dreaded pink fog, if it takes over then rationality of course slides away.
I also agree that my wife is bent out of shape over the revulsion, and not the deceit. She's hardly mentioned the deceit at all in the last month, but the revulsion is the big topic when anything at all is mentioned.
I agree with the several posters who say I've done nothing wrong, that this is not a disease. But at this point, standing up for a principle will certainly cost me my marriage while compromising by discarding my fetish (and it is a fetish, not a lifestyle) at least gives me a chance to save it.
Joint counseling is indeed my goal. I've promised to see a counselor to help me maintain my giving up of cd'ing. My hope is that I can convince my wife that she can benefit from going to see the counselor with me.
Again, thanks to all for your thoughts and comments.
Georgi
Last edited by Georgi; 07-31-2010 at 11:55 AM.
Georgi,
When I was married I felt like part of me was missing, my wife could tell ,she said she could always tell when I had the un explainable urge to express myself in cding. I felt un happy sometimes denying that part of me but yet at the same time I was happy to be with my family.
I am now single , I have nothing holding me back to expressing myself and I am happy, but yet unhappy because I don't have my wife anymore. Cding wasn't the reason for our ending but it didn't help..I was able to surpress it but never stop ..I will be honest it was very hard to do..Good luck set you mind to it, just remember you are shutting a part of your life out.
I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.
I'm sure that what she was calling immature is your wife's attitude that "she doesn't need to change".
I'm afraid no matter how much we aim to live our life , councelling in my mind will NOT help to cease the desire to dress . Purging the closet or dresser is a costly repeated move made by many . Purging the character is another question . You may disagree , but it never goes away - it has to be recognised and accepted - in time the desire will return . You know this . Ok , so some partners are totally repulsed by anothers behaviour , but does it really mean a lifestyle alteration isneeded to keep one happy ? In the end , the only result will be is denial and unhappiness in abundance . I consider it far more important to commit to better communication between each other , opening all channels and having to at least confront issues in an equal manner . Ok , it means facing demons , but isn't that what couples strive to achieve ?
I consider it all too fresh , all too new for any planned directions whilst in a state of shock , fear and uncertainess . perhaps its time to let the dust settle , try to establish conversation without the fight or flight syndrome kicking in , only then could you decide on the direction of help together .
As for the " crowd " you mention on here . I think everyones situation is different , if the forum prompted you to come out and the result isn't good then perhaps there is a deeper issue personally in the relationship that you may have over looked - I wouldn't let a threads response be directly responsible for my actions . Prompt me to think for sure , but I'd consider the results of any actions I'd deliver first . It's without doubt the situation you are now in is a very uneasy scarey time , but it has to be dealt with .Properly . If it goes full belly up , then the outcome could be a long drawn out affair with the winners only ever being solicitors / lawyers . I'd try to avoid that like the plague , but in the cold stark reality it means no promises , no oaths or denial . It simply means facing up to the problem together . Remember - you got together for the love you both shared ... perhaps now its time to face those demons and do it together .And the most undeniable part of your situation has been hiding you away . Your wife feels cheated , lied too , but probably worst of all untrusted . You really need to attend to this . I'd seek marital help first in trying to get those communications gping again first - with help if need be . No threats , no promises , just cards on the table time .
Last edited by Shelly67; 07-30-2010 at 12:41 AM.
I know NOW that I am a crossdresser and will never escape the thoughts that go with it. but it is the hardest thing that I have EVER had to ADMIT to myself.
WE as crossdressers still have a need for LOVE and can love just as much as any other person.
The hardest thing I ever had to do was tell my wife about me. Not because I had too but because I NOW knew it was the RIGHT thing to do because I excepted it as me and she should know about her husband.
Honestly, STOP telling people that we deserve to be divorced because we chose to ignore a part of ourselves that I am sure most just wanted to go away and never be discovered, but later found out and accepted.
BTW- my wife knows and is tolerant but has never met my femme side, I wish she would but I am willing to wait as long as it takes- if ever. But I DON'T BELIEVE I deserve to lose her for not being able to admit I am a crossdresser. most young couples are just learning about ourselves when we get married and grow together or apart. STOP JUDGING others. Yes it is a big secret for most that can have serious consequences and may end up hurting someone UNINTENTIONALLY. I think we just want to LOVE and be loved.
Currently I am not dressed and have not been for a few days ie underdressed (as I'm closetted) and what I know is that you can stop for periods dependent on all sorts of things ie run out of clean underwear ! or just too tired to bother "with all that stuff' and the longer you stop the easier it becomes if your crossdressing is an addiction.I am also giving up smoking at present for the umpteenth time and this time I hope I can stop BUT it seems the old adage is once a smoker always a smoker,once a drinker always a drinker ie meaning not that you can stop but that the feeling will forever remain that you would love to continue.Now the difference to me is that smoking and drinking are dangerous to your physical health but in moderation maybe neither of them are going to shorten your life etc .Cd'ing may be addictive but in moderation and in a controlled situation can actually be good for you;eg a glass of red can be beneficial for your health ,So it all comes back to what you feel inside and believe in yourself and if you are destined to transition then with what Ive been reading that is a one way street and there is no getting off that train.If only a crossdresser then it may be controllable and this is where you may find compromise with your wife if you take time and give her time to digest the news.Giving up all together would to me be more impossible than stopping smoking and may be detrimental to your health especially your mental health!!
My wife and I have been to a lot of counseling, both together and separately, and as much as I wanted to stop CDing in order to meet my wife's expectations I could never entirely give it up. I went months, sometimes as long as a year, but it always came back. My wife always asked me if I was "cured" during my quiet times, and I thought I was. But I wasn't, and you won't be either. Not one single counselor had any idea how to stop cross dressing. And Lord knows I tried every trick in the book to stop because I really wanted to meet her expectations. Every single counselor told us that I was doing nothing wrong and it really wasn't worth getting upset about it. When my wife heard someone tell her that she immediately stopped going to counseling because that did not agree with what was in her mind.
The only counselor who had the courage to really tell it to me straight said that I might as well face the fact that my wife would never accept anything to do with cross dressing. And I would never get over being a cross dresser. So she told me to accept those facts of life and if my wife couldn't come to terms with me then prepare to end the marriage and move on. This devastated me for a couple of years while I tried desperately to stop CDing and hold on to my marriage. I finally told my wife that this is certainly NOT who I wanted to be, but it is a part of who I am and if she can't accept me, love me, and be my sexual partner, then she is free to walk out the door at any time and I won't try to stop her.
Your wife is certainly entitled to her feeling and opinions, and you are entitled to your own. You can talk it over and figure out a way to continue to have a loving, caring marriage. Or you can decide that this is just not going to work for either of you. But you need to accept who you are, even though it may not be who you or your wife want you to be. Once you get there, then stand up for yourself. I am a firm believer in marriage and we are still married after 41 years. I do not want my marriage to end, and neither do you, but I would rather see it end than go back into denying who and what I am. My wife is far from accepting the CDing, but at least she accepts me in spite of it. Neither one of us wants a divorce so we just figure out ways to accept each other without reservation.
Good luck. I truly wish you the best but you really need to prepare yourself for what might seem like the worst. Once you have acknowledged and accepted that divorce may be a reasonable alternative then it becomes easier to try to work out your problems.
I thought that might be the case. My question to you would be did you really believe that she would react any differently? Is she a genuinely open minded adventurous person or is she comfortably mainstream? If the latter then you were definitely taking a major risk.
Your description of her immediate and subsequent behavior does indeed indicate that repulsion is the main issue here. We are all aware of the ignorance, prejudice and sexist attitudes that CDing generates in our culture - it is the reason why we are in the closet in the first place. It is very debilitating for CDs to assess how to cope with our predicament when we know we cannot get a fair hearing and equal treatment.
Being Mr Pragmatic, I know that sometimes it is better to keep these types of secrets hidden when we know we will be judged unfairly. I wish that were not the case but I live in the real world and I know life is not fair, it never was and never will be. Idealism and realism are rarely bedfellows.
I am glad you posted your story and hope it gives others food for thought about the pros and cons of informing your SO.
One thing that does disappoint me is your current plan of action. While I understand why you are thinking this way, I hope you can see you are making a mistake. Irregardless of your description that your CDing is a fetish, it will not go away. Once the emotional turmoil goes down, your resolve will quickly melt away and the desire will become all consuming again. You will rebuild your wardrobe although probably you are thinking about keeping this one a secret.
I think this approach is ultimately foolhardy. You have not changed but your wife must assuredly has. Her perception of you has flip-flopped and can never return to where it was before. A line in the sand has been drawn. She no longer thinks of you as being a "real" man, she will be highly suspicious of everything you do, say or think. Your previous happy relationship is over and you need to start again with a wife who has major issues about who you are. Only you are in a position to measure how likely it is that you can re-establish a happy and trusting relationship.
In any event instead of telling her that you are an ex-CD, tell her the truth that you will sacrifice your own needs for the sake of the relationship but that these CD thoughts will always be with you and she needs to deal with that knowledge and accept it.
Last edited by Satrana; 07-30-2010 at 04:19 AM.
I am more than certain the comment by Silhouette was indeed directed to your wife.
I am sorry, but running into the bathroom and puking ever sentence I am sure was an over statement, and is also a sign of SEVERE mental problems on her part.
Her reactions if they are as you described are DISGUSTING!!!
I personally would want her out of my life if she reacted so unbelievably irrational. Why in the hell would I want someone that behaved in such an unbelievable manner to something like this? Is she such an effing saint? Does she do things that at one time were considered abhorrent for women to do? To me her behavior is equivalent to how some men behaved when they learned their wives were earning money doing a job on the side (yes there were times that men acted like this, but instead of violent throwing up, it was violent throwing the woman)
For eff's sake you are not cheating on her with another woman!!! You aren't out there diddling little kids!! You don't have an infatuation with Poop. You simply emulate the characteristics of the gender that you desire for affection.
I am sorry but her behavior just really pisses me off. Women that behave in the manner she is behaving do absolutely NOTHING for women in general (you know, the view that women are always irrational). You did indeed dump a big load on her, but this is just ludicrous to read.
Something tells me there is FAR more than what you are telling us, in this scenario. Her described behavior is just beyond the pale, when one really looks at it.
I am sorry if my reaction to a more thorough reading of her reaction was harsh, but dammit, you are doing nothing wrong!!!! Why are you treated like you are? Also, why are you beating yourself up like this? Yes you should be upset that you did not tell her earlier, but that is the only thing you did wrong....and with the irrational behavior of some people, who could really blame you?
With regard to quitting I'll add that I dressed from age 10 or so until I was almost 30. Then I came out to my wife of 2 years and she tried to accept it, even participate some but couldn't handle it. So I went back in the closet for a couple of years then after a major purge we moved to a very rural farm - I repressed my CDing for almost 20yrs w/ only occasional (maybe 5 or so) episodes - not full blown as I had no things and they were a real challenge to acquire - so just an undergarment or nylons. BUT - during those 20 yrs I repressed my CDing, I bet not a single week went by without me having vivid dreams of dressing. It never went away. Now, I've started to discuss it with my wife and she accepts it as something I do. But I'm truly amazed at how persistent and powerful this draw to dress is.
Pythos - I know much of what you're saying makes sense but one thing about this:
After you've been with someone and built a life together, it's not as easy to just walk away. There are a lot of ramifications from splitting up an established marriage that aren't necessarily there when you're younger. I see your point about why stay with someone who treats you like that and even agree - just want to point out it's complicated sometimes.
Also, I was thinking this evening while I was picking raspberries (yes, I actually got up from the computer today), what a f'ed up society we live in that looks down on adult males dressing as women YET it condones women, NO, MOTHERS who dress their 4 yr olds like hookers and have them dance (sometimes to provocative music) on stage for awards and prizes. AND this is considered entertainment as it is broadcast on TV. Crap - that should be considered child abuse at least and perhaps kiddie porn. But noooo - it's those creepy CD/TS folks that make us vomit. How about a little self-reflection America!!? Thanks Pythos - now I'm all fired up!!!!
Good night.
Last edited by ReineD; 07-30-2010 at 02:41 PM. Reason: Please cite the person you quoted. It makes it easier to follow.
Tommie, I just wanted to congratulate you a lot for this moving post and of top quality. You have certainly made the most from your traumatic experience and I found your suggestions to Georgi were excellent.
Last edited by Tamara Croft; 07-30-2010 at 06:01 AM. Reason: quote removed, no need for it
"Tell 'em!" is not "Write 'em!"
I have always disagreed with the "Write 'em!" crowd. It's cowardly, it's clumsy, it's written evidence...
I suspect those who've gone the "Write em!" route and succeeded were in the presence of an SO who would have been as well off, or, better, if they'd just talked it over.
And, "Write 'em!" as a suggestion is more likely workable as, "Get your thoughts on paper - to sort them out for yourself..." Don't do a tenth draft and stick it under their noses to have them sit there ON THE SPOT and deal simultaneously with their problems AND yours.
The most common response to people finally doing such things, either way, "Why didn't you just TELL me?"
The most reasonable response from someone who loves YOU? "Well, nobody is perfect. Let's just talk about this some more and see how it works out."
"Write 'em!"?
Do you really want a letter BACK?
"Dear Bill, I think it best if we divorce. Sincerely, Carol."
No, I understood perfectly what you did to this woman by spending weeks composing a letter in secret, about something you'd kept secret, only to bushwhack her with your HONESTY in one of the most unexpected moments of her life.
You can quote what you READ on the "How to tell your SO" thread, but your results TELL the story... Make some notes about what to talk about, sure. But, do the talking when it's time. From her point of view, it's always "time." She's there, with you in your life, to listen. It's your shared lives. Give her that trust and courtesy.
Yeah, thanks for posting. Maybe they'll change the damn thing.
In the end, you're inclined to be who you are and dabbling in crossdressing is something you do - if not in a place and at no other times, just in your head. Your obvious success in living peacefully with other people, of being able to make and keep contracts and commitments, even your clumsy way of trying to be a good person, all argue that crossdressing is not a significant negative in your life. It might, in fact, for you be a plus. It's PART of who you are, it's harmless in itself, and it may give you some attitudes, habits, and insights that are extremely valuable to other people. You've kept this in your life because it has been a plus to you. You've probably attributed too much "negativity" to it and worried about it too much. That "negativity" may have prompted you to "fess up." Too bad you didn't just "speak up."
Your wife has a right to her feelings. Go apologize for being such a dope. If you have to smoke, drink, crossdress, dance, hunt, gamble, or, whatever to be your best self, just own up to it. People want to love and be loved. But, they want to know who, what, when, where, how and why to feel safe doing so.
Good luck.
And, cheer up... You won't make these same mistakes twice.
I have to reply to your post.
I can say been there and done that. Yes I told my wife years after we were married. Yes it was the wrong thing to do because I should have told her before she put on the ring. I had the reason most did at the time I didn't understand about my self and who I was inside. My wife was angry and yes it was just about the end of our marrage.
However we went to a counselor and we talked and talked. This was not a week or a month it was over two years. We both had all the reactions for different reasons which have been already stated before. We found that we loved each other very much and there was other things that also had to be talked about. In the end we are still together but now there are rules that we both use for our marrage to work. Neither of us are perfect. It was very clear to the counselor that I could not change but could control how much I crossdressed. Over time the rules changed and we still have times that we both are not happy but at least now we talk. I know many who worked on there marrage with a counselor some stayed together some didn't. All I can say is some things can be fixed some things can't, it all depends on if you both want to try.
Georgi, As I said in your introductory thread, I'm here as a friend for you to talk to as I know what you are going through. Contact me if you like after your first 10 posts. Take care my friend.
Second star to the right and straight on till morning
I'm sorry that she can't accept the real you. CD'ing is like being left handed, you can use your right hand conciously all you want, but you're still left handed. You can dress in drab for the rest of your life, but you're still a CD. The messup part of what happened is the same as what I did, and that's not to tell her before she said "I do".
My wife took it badly, but eventually came to understand that I don't want to become a woman, but merely sail on the estrogen ocean from time to time. I underlined that the elements of me that attracted her to me over other guys came from the parts of me that urged me to crossdress.
One of the important parts of all this is how you phrased the above quote. You said you're "being a crossdresser", not "that I crossdress(ed)" A crossdresser is what you are, not what you do. I discovered that when I tried to not be one for years for the sake of my marriage. Before I descended into depression and wrecked my marriage from the effects of denying half of what I am, I decided to come out to my wife, figuring that worst case senario, my wife would simply leave me earlier than waiting around for my personality to totally crash and burn to exit. Not tipping your cap to the girl inside has ramifications beyond the loss of business to the store selling women's clothes.She will likely never accept my being a crossdresser
The other part of this is you're still posting as "Georgi" not "George, formerly Georgi". I truly wish you the best of luck, but sincerely hope you're not building this all on false hopes hopes and unrealistic dreams.
Kate
"No, I'm not hitting on you, Ma'am, when I said I wanted to get in your pants, I meant I wanted to try them on!"
This is why all of this concerns me. You agree that you have done nothing wrong and yet you also acknowledge that she feels that it is your problem, not hers and that she wants you to go and get cured. How can you be cured when you are not sick? That makes no sense.
CDing is not a disease. A relationship is about two people working together. In as much as I can totally get why it is that you want to save your marriage because I went through this as well, I am really concerned with these types of statements.
You can say that CDing is not that important, that your relationship is more valuable to you and I totally understand that. You can say that CDing is something that does not need to be a lifestyle but is a fetish instead and you can not do it and I can accept and wish you the best on controlling your urges.
The thing that I cannot accept and it has taken me a long time to learn this is that a person can learn something new about you and then basically hold you hostage forcing you to "cure yourself" or the relationship ends. That is not the way functional relationships work. This is not your problem, it is not even a problem at all.
The real problem is not the CDing, it is the unwillingness of your wife to be open to the idea that there are aspects of you that she may not like but, out of her love for you, should be willing to try and understand.
You see this is the challenge that I found myself in, my ex professed to love me and yet held me hostage too. It was cure myself or leave. She would not try and understand, she would not try and meet me half way. It was her way or the highway. For 10 years I tried to do it her way but in the end it was more than I could handle, not because of the cross dressing but because I had this odd belief that if someone loved you they would do their best to understand you and that even if they did not want to be a part of some aspect of who you were that they at least acknowledged that it was a part of your being. That is what for better or for worse encompasses.
I was devastated and dis-illusioned and I loved my wife dearly and just could not understand why she would not even try, that it always had to be her way, that I had to be cured when I did not actually have an illness. What I learned was that I did not value myself enough, that I was so afraid to be alone that I was prepared to do anything, but in the end I was unhappy and resentful.
I know that it is your life and your decision but a red flag goes up for me here, a big red flag and while you may not see it now I suspect that in years to come you will look back on this moment and realize what you cannot see right now - someone who loves you, who truelly loves you - does not force you down the path that she is pushing you down - this is tantamount to her using whatever means she has to bully you into doing what she wants. Deny it until you are blue in the face but that is what is happening here.
Melissa
What stop do I get off at? Hmmm...
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