Is it just me or.... ??

[Cristi]

My personal BS detector goes off whenever I read a post by somebody about how they 'passed' for days outside shopping with nobody knowing they were not a woman. They they talk about how totally out they are at work, friends and family and how so many people accept their dressing.

...but they won't post a photo as their avatar.

I read most posts here as truthful at the core, but perhaps just 'enhanced' a touch.

PS: Jayme. I appreciate and share your sceptical mindset. I personally think the world needs more sceptics to debunk some of the **** that we are starting to drown in.

[Rachel Morley]

This is a touchy subject to be sure, and it's subjective because it's about how a person believed a situation was. I think I know some of the posts you are referring to and I must admit they do seen a bit "boasty" (if that's a word) but let me tell you this, truthfully, if I was to tell you some of the things that have happened in my CDing life you would totally think I was BS-ing you and that it should be on some sort of TG fiction site. But believe me, sometimes the truth really is stranger than (or the same as TG) fiction!

[Karen564]

I know I sound cynical... It's true... because I AM cynical. I also know I will probably get a heap of "you are 'so' wrong" messages too... I don't really care. Let me leave you with this... Next time you read a thread, ask yourself if it's true... and then ask yourself again... if it's REALLY true or do you just wish so hard that it was true (maybe even that it would happen to you), that it starts to look true even though it's obvious, and utter cods wallop.

I'm not saying it's everyone... But face it... It's happening.

[SIZE=2]To be honest, You really don't you need to put too much thought into it...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Yes, there's a ton of BS floating around, and it does immediately stick out like a throbbing sore thumb ...BUT, is it really that big of a deal ?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Although I do see the downside to this for the ones that are so gullable...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]But as long as you & others here can recognize the difference between :BS:fiction & some embellished :BS:non fiction..then I think it's best to just turn the channel & move on to something more real or if it's something that really strikes a nerve, then say what you need to if it calls for it......[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]If it's Total :BS: and harmful, just watch how swiftly our fearless :TamaraCroft: Leader/Moderators deal with it accordingly if they see it as detrimental to the common good of the site & it's patrons..[/SIZE]


[SIZE=2]btw, I think your radar is working fine..[/SIZE]

[Andy66]

I agree that there must be a certain amount of b.s. here. But then again, some of the strangest things really can happen.

For example, a T-girl applied for a job where I work recently. To me she was obviously a T-girl... but the naive Personnel Manager was shocked and amazed to find out that she was. (BTW, I didn't out her, she outed herself.)

I didn't read the teenage bra thing so I can't really comment, but let's just say I have my suspicions.

[Kathi Lake]

I think I know some of the posts you are referring to and I must admit they do seen a bit "boasty" (if that's a word)

Sigh. Ouch.

[PretzelGirl]

It seems to me that the people that go out with confidence do tend to have the tales that others may or may not believe. That would be because it isn't within their experience so it is hard to place yourself there. That is a fairly normal reaction.

I think there are ways to tell more what may be fact vs fiction. Obviously, people can build up credibility here. A person with a truly unbelievable story and 3 total posts doesn't carry the weight of someone with 4000 posts. As someone else mentioned, do they post an avatar or pictures in their profile (although I wouldn't put complete faith in this one as a sole checkpoint, sometimes privacy can still be a concern). Even better can be when they are out with someone else from the forum. Makes it more of a stretch to call that a fabrication.

But if you are around here for a while and the poster is also, it becomes pretty clear who is straight up with you. So it is mostly the new posters that it becomes hard to believe if it is really true.

[Sweet Jane]

It seems to me that the people that go out with confidence do tend to have the tales that others may or may not believe. That would be because it isn't within their experience so it is hard to place yourself there. That is a fairly normal reaction.

I think there are ways to tell more what may be fact vs fiction. Obviously, people can build up credibility here. A person with a truly unbelievable story and 3 total posts doesn't carry the weight of someone with 4000 posts. As someone else mentioned, do they post an avatar or pictures in their profile (although I wouldn't put complete faith in this one as a sole checkpoint, sometimes privacy can still be a concern). Even better can be when they are out with someone else from the forum. Makes it more of a stretch to call that a fabrication.

But if you are around here for a while and the poster is also, it becomes pretty clear who is straight up with you. So it is mostly the new posters that it becomes hard to believe if it is really true.

sue...i'm out there with the best of them....from a distance (how far is a distance..haha) i pass as a woman, i think, simply because i get no reaction from anyone, however close up, its obvious what i am, and if i am ma'amed, its because of the good nature of the person, not my 'superpassability'

as for people telling stories of their interacting with their community dressed as a woman, yet won't put the photo of the woman they are happy for all to see at home on here, i'm doubly sceptical....we don't know them, do we?, but chances are someone in their community does

stil folks, don't quit the tales of your 'adventures' as it makes for some great reading, especially subsequent posts!

[ReineD]

I've also read some stories here that seem far-fetched. There are lots of TGs who come here looking for support, but my SO pointed out to me years ago that there are others who come here because it is a much needed outlet for their fantasies. Their posts seem permeated with wishful thinking. I suppose this is also a form of support as it is a coping mechanism do deal with life circumstances in which these TGs may feel they cannot express themselves as much as they need to.

There is nothing wrong with an ego boost and there is no harm when it is all done in good fun and everyone realizes it is a fantasy since as mentioned, this can be a valuable coping mechanism.

It bothers me when these members pass off their stories as the truth and thoughtlessly cheer others on in their fantasies and encourage them to go further than what might be safe or realistic. This can set a younger or more gullible CD up for severe disappointment since it is taking advantage of their own wishful thinking.

Encouraging small and perhaps unglamorous but concrete steps towards progress is much better than promoting denial and rash behavior.

:2c:

[Tamara Croft]

I've re-opened this thread, anymore OT posts, you'll get slapped...

[letsdance GG]

If it looks like a duck....'nough said:D

[Cassandra Lynn]

I consider myself a realist/pragmatist, and i have a world class sense of perception when dealing with real life ppl, but it doesn't work as well with the written word. I don't think of it as being a cynic or pessimist. When i see something that is most likely false, or sensationalized i grumble but move on. Although i certainly stand behind those of you who have taken the opportunity to bring it up. I also agree that calling someone a troll on this site is tacky to say the least.

But on the other hand what i keep seeing that i have to take this opportunity to bring up is the constant "advice" of the ladies on here telling others to "out" themselves to thier loved ones. I've seen it too many times....."just tell them/her" "quit being a coward and fess up" "go on what are you waiting for". Just plain wrong! I picture 2 mice talking about getting some cheese but there worried about a cat.....so one says to the other "you go ahead and go on out there and get it, you know you can, come on go,go,go". It makes me wonder where they are at with it in thier lives, are they sitting there in the closet telling someone else to do something they themselves won't do? :2c: mj

[mklinden2010]

>>Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed the trend towards message threads on here that have a primary message that is simply too good to be true (or a lie as we call it).

>>Threads talking about the most far fetched contrived happenings, daughters outing their dads and being 'totally cool' and their teen friends discussing their bras at the breakfast table in front of adults.... Bank clerks who can't believe you're a Mr.... You look 'that fem' when you're out.




I think, from prior postings on the topic, that a large number of people here do review the things posted and do carefully think before commenting or moving on to the next thread.

Perhaps too many ARE moving on when they should heed that warning "flag" that momentarily pops into their mind.

I disagree that this is a support site exclusively and I don't think it's a site blindly interested in promoting delusions:

"Crossdressers.Com was created in February 2004 by the owner ‘Admin’ and his Tech Team."

HIS Tech Team...

That should tell anyone this might be a complicated ride...

I do somethings think that more postings ought to be moved to other sections that require a password, and a note of explanation, before allowing access to certain topics. And, I do think that some of those topics, or, types might be excluded or banned from this sight as inconsistent with explaining and supporting CDing, TG, and TS behavior. Some things get too close to behaviors that are seemingly not promoting an ultimately positive view of CDers, TG and TS persons.

Meanwhile, some of the postings, as noted, require a bit of background to sort between a "silly" story and a personal victory. I have no doubt that the bank gals were enthusiastic, I have some doubt if they meant to do more than support a particular customer/friend's interests. In other words, they're saying, "Good for you" without meaning, "Good for everyone else."

I think you also have to have some background of your own to sort through a story about 12-year olds discussing bras with older men present. That she said it, and she might very well have, doesn't mean you can go with a 12-year olds understanding of the world as a "green light" to live by... "Girlish" chattering might be recognized as just that and one might excuse oneself by saying, "Well, pardon me, but I think you ladies might need to talk about this among yourselves." One has to be aware that this conversation may come up later in her therapy as an adult; "Oh, why did he just sit there and let me prattle on? It's so embarrassing now. I why did "I" do that? "I" was a fool."

[minalost]

I haven’t thought too much about the fact or fiction aspect of this site. I usually take MOST posts at face value, unless they are so totally out in left field that they are obvious fabrications. I usually don’t respond to the obvious BS, but they are sometimes entertaining. I also think admin does a good job of spotting and squashing anything truly harmful.

Photo vs. no photo: I tend to agree that someone with a photo is more believable than someone without a photo. You will note that I do NOT have a photo in my profile; it’s a work in progress. But I also don’t post any crazy stories; but every thing I have posted is true.

Bottom line, I don’t think we want to get TOO strict about demanding the unvarnished truth from everyone. Some people see life through rose color glasses and their interpretation of events might not jibe with yours, some people just need to vent, and some people need to fantasize about what they can’t get in real life.

Just my :2c:.

[Kathi Lake]

I also agree that calling someone a troll on this site is tacky to say the least.

Tacky? Perhaps. I still stand behind the phrase. Trolls delight in stirring up trouble and then moving along. Jayme said she was just going to be here for a little while. She then left a "parting shot" aimed at people she didn't agree with/believe. That, to me, is stirring the pot for nothing other than her own amusement/satisfaction. What do statements like that do to help us? Using inflammatory phrases like "lies" "contrived happenings" "BS" and "utter cods wallop" (whatever that is) in a post is nothing more than baiting, in my opinion.

Now, maybe I am too close to this situation, being one of the accused, and am letting my emotions get the best of me. If that's the case and I am overreacting, I apologize. No one likes being called a liar - especially if it is an unfair accusation. In my case, I believe it is.

Jayme, I may have to go back and reread my posts, but I don't believe that I have ever said anyone at the bank has told me that they didn't know I was a guy. They know I'm a guy. It's quite obvious. Not only do I usually go in there as a guy, but I have a face that not even a mother could love. I use my guy's voice and even my guy's name while out dressed. There is never a doubt as to my gender. I don't care. I'm having fun. I accept myself this way. That is what others tell me that they see. Yes, there are other comments on my appearance, but my emphasis is on our acceptance of ourselves.

Reine, I don't believe that I ". . . thoughtlessly cheer others on in their fantasies and encourage them to go further than what might be safe or realistic." Do I tell them that yes, they certainly can be accepted out there? Certainly! I've seen it time and time again. Do I try to "push them from the nest" too early? I certainly hope not. I'm not going to be one to say, "Come on. Get out there! Now!! You're ready. What are you waiting for?" At least, that's not my intent. I simply want them to know that when they're ready, that the world isn't as bad a place as they might think it is. That has been my experience, anyway.

MsMJSerene, I am definitely not one of those that thinks outing yourself is always the way to go either. If I did, then I would really be lying. My wife knows about me, but doesn't want to see or hear about it. I therefore keep her in the dark. There have been times when one of us almost breaks through the "embarrassment barrier" and brings the subject up, but it never happens. Do I like "lying by omission" to my wife. Not at all. It's what I consider the only bad thing about my dressing. I wish it were otherwise, but I am too weak to bring the matter up for discussion.

Kathi

[bobi jean]

First off, just how many of you have sit and talked with (or listened to) young girls, or boys for that matter, lately? They do talk about stuff like that all the time, that's how they learn from each other. I agree that talking in front of, or to, "a friends father" is a bit odd, and maybe, just maybe, a little unbelievable, but personaly I have no doubt in my mind that it is a real possibility.
I do not have a daughter or a grand daughter that age but I do have two nieces within the age range we are talking (one 11 and one 13). they are sisters and on several occasions they have talked about their clothes, bras and even thongs one one occasion with me, my wife, their mother and father in the same room. Not directly to, or at, us but we were in the same room and it did not bother them in the least.
personally, I believe it is all in the way they have been raised. Not that I agree with all of it but they are very open and accepting of others. I have never heard either one of them say anything bad about anyone else except the older of the two made a comment about another skater (she is a figure skater) once and MOM immediately stopped that. She said " since when do we talk bad about others "?
JUST MY TWO CENTS WORTH ! ! !

OH, it's ok if you don't believe all of what you read, see or hear, that is what makes the world such an interesting place, don't you agree?
"STRANGER THINGS HAVE HAPPENED"
and that you an believe!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cassandra Lynn]

Yeah i agree Kathi, i have reacted in the same way on other forums such as this when i have been called out. It is not a pleasant feeling and you handling pretty good. mj

[Sheila]

If I had discovered my daughter had been having that type of conversation with a friend of hers dad and he had joined in, then sorry she would not have been visiting again ........... it is just plain creepy, most dads would run a mile from participating in conversations about bra's with their daughters let alone her and a bunch of mates .............. maybe I just know some weird dads

[kimdl93]

I don't kow if its a trend. There have been a few threads that I may have doubted, but then I take pretty much everything on face value. OK, my wife says I'm oblivious.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed the trend towards message threads on here that have a primary message that is simply too good to be true (or a lie as we call it).

No overall trend that I can see.

Bank clerks who can't believe you're a Mr

I believe you've misread that one, that's not what they said, considering that the person who wrote it went to the bank in "guy mode." They asked where "girl her" was, told her she looked faboo/stylish when en femme, that she had a great walk, yadda yadda yadda. Quite believable.

.... You look 'that fem' when you're out.

There are some very stylish/well dressed/fabulous looking folks here.

I know I sound cynical... It's true... because I AM cynical.

Excessive cynicism is a bad thing.

I'm not saying it's everyone... But face it... It's happening.

Happened, yes, but not so much. Any oldbie can spot it when it shows up.

but let me tell you this, truthfully, if I was to tell you some of the things that have happened in my CDing life you would totally think I was BS-ing you and that it should be on some sort of TG fiction site. But believe me, sometimes the truth really is stranger than (or the same as TG) fiction!

Yep. Here's a couple of imine:

1. The first time I went out in public in 2001, someone who knows me didn't recognize me and was wondering "who that woman was" until I spoke.

2. My avatar picture is from Thanksgiving day of 2005. Yes, I cooked Thanksgiving dinner in a dress, heels and pearls...with my family (mother, father sister). I was starting to make the deviled eggs and my father stopped me and handed me an apron, (because I had forgot to grab one) saying, "don't want to get anything on your pretty dress"

3. I was mistaken for an SO at Tri-Ess, "At first I thought you were an SO until I heard your voice."

4. I was told by a Lancome MA that I should be doing her job and that I should apply for a position.

5. Two separate professional image consultants at a Tri-Ess event asked me who did my makeup, and when I said I did, they asked where I had learned it, and said, "Don't change a thing."

6. My sister bought me a pretty silk dress for my birthday a couple of years ago, and she is the one who bought me my first book about "This thing of ours"

7. My Christmas stocking has both my [boyname] (which many people here have seen) and my [girlname] on it. My mother and sister made it for me.

8. A few years back I decided I needed some counseling about "this thing of ours" and did some sessions at a local agency. My counselor suggested I become more comfortable with "IT" and suggested I come to the sessions en femme, because it was a "safe place" So I did. The first time I was as nervous as heck trying to figure out what to wear so I chose what I might wear if I worked there: a short sleeve sweater, knee length skirt, tights and heeled loafers. So I'm out there and surrounded by other clients...and kids....and no one said a thing. I was worried about what my counselor would think of what I was wearing. So she comes to get me for my session and she is wearing: a short sleeved sweater, knee length skirt, tights, and heeled loafers. I just about lauged out of a huge sense of relief that I was dressed "right" and that both her and I had chosen similar outfits that day.

All of the above is true.

I think there are ways to tell more what may be fact vs fiction. Obviously, people can build up credibility here. A person with a truly unbelievable story and 3 total posts doesn't carry the weight of someone with 4000 posts.

Yep, oldbies get reputations and credibility. Some of us have been around the TG internets block as it were, 11 years I've been involved in the online TG community. In fact it will be exactly 11 years in 4 days, March 8 of 1999 was when I created "VeronicaMoonlit" on my first way to access the Internet, though I'd created a web mail account on a public computer a couple of months earlier. But "VeronicaMoonlit" really started being active on that date above.

But if you are around here for a while and the poster is also, it becomes pretty clear who is straight up with you. So it is mostly the new posters that it becomes hard to believe if it is really true.

Yep.

I've also read some stories here that seem far-fetched. There are lots of TGs who come here looking for support, but my SO pointed out to me years ago that there are others who come here because it is a much needed outlet for their fantasies. Their posts seem permeated with wishful thinking. I suppose this is also a form of support as it is a coping mechanism do deal with life circumstances in which these TGs may feel they cannot express themselves as much as they need to.

Yep, that happens, not too often, but it does. Have seen it for years on USENET and TG spaces on the net.

But on the other hand what i keep seeing that i have to take this opportunity to bring up is the constant "advice" of the ladies on here telling others to "out" themselves to thier loved ones. I've seen it too many times....."just tell them/her" "quit being a coward and fess up" "go on what are you waiting for". Just plain wrong! ......r where they are at with it in thier lives, are they sitting there in the closet telling someone else to do something they themselves won't do? :2c: mj

I always tell people who ask questions on how to best hide their stash, or questions on how they should hide their pictures and web browsing to tell. Tell early, honesty really is the best policy. Just put on your "big girl pnaties" and do it, as some say. I came out to my family in 1993 and it was one of the smartest things I've ever done. Sure it was scary, but it was a good thing for me, and one of the things that helped me overcome my "dark times".

"utter cods wallop" (whatever that is)

UK euphemism of uncertain origin, that basically means "nonsense" or "BS" in Yank.

Yes, there are other comments on my appearance, but my emphasis is on our acceptance of ourselves.

Exactly!

Do I tell them that yes, they certainly can be accepted out there? Certainly! I've seen it time and time again. Do I try to "push them from the nest" too early? I certainly hope not. I'm not going to be one to say, "Come on. Get out there! Now!! You're ready. What are you waiting for?" At least, that's not my intent. I simply want them to know that when they're ready, that the world isn't as bad a place as they might think it is. That has been my experience, anyway.

Ditto,

Veronica Rogers

[Imogen_Mann]

I'd like to address some of the comments here. I can... It was my thread.

I did NOT single out particular persons in posts, when I spoke of bank visits or teenager bra discussions they were strictly to illuminate my point, not to point the accusatory finger. I'm sorry if I made anyone feel uncomfortable.
Second point, I did not misread any posts and then make inappropriate comments... I can in fact read rather well for a member of the lower classes.

I think I made my point well, and the discussion and lively debate shows that this is indeed an emotive subject. I still hold my views, and I understand that many users of the forums here do not agree with them... But isn't that what lively debate is about ? Come on... Less mud flinging, more thought and typing. Don't jerk a knee at me, don't yell at me.... Make your point in a well presented way.

I'm heartened that so many of the counterpoints here are sensible and well thought out, and, agree with you or otherwise... I thank you ALL for reading, and joining in :-)

[bethw]

We all know that some things are definitly fiction but we have to take that stuff in stride. Trips to the bank, yea kathi, are things that happen every day to us. true, It doesn't happen to all of us but it does happen. I, for one. am willing to give the benefit of the doubt most of the time. And no, I don't want to buy a bridge from you. I'm just a trusting person at heart.

Beth

[Kathi Lake]

Jayme, my point is that you may have wanted a serious discussion of the issues, but the way you phrased it - with all of those nicey-nice words, like liars, BS, contrived situations and the like, and then caling out certain individuals by the events in their posts (and leaving little doubt as to who you were really talking about in the process), was not the right way to go about it. Saying something like, "I have noticed a growing use of fantasy in people's posts on this board. What do you think?" would have been a much less inflammatory way to go about it.

And no, I don't want to buy a bridge from you. I'm just a trusting person at heart.

Darn! Because I have a great one for you - it was only driven over by a little old lady on her way to and from church on Sundays!



Kathi

[Nicole Erin]

Some stories are really nutzoid, but I think a lot of the ones here are probably true.
It gets to the passing thing - a CD goes out, dressed well, and doesn't make it obvious about the male side, she will probably have a normal day.
Families can be accepting, mine is.

What you often don't read or hear about are the struggles a CD or TS might have to endure to get to a certain point. Like me, I can dress as I please, but it costed me my marriage (that and other problems)


I have seen some BS stories on the web from CD or TS, I am not talking "bending the truth", I am talking whopper stories! I mean TRUE BS.

Some TS chick from UK used to have this site years ago, and her story was, in a gist -
when she tried to kill herself and went the hospital, told her family about her wanting to be a girl, hugs, comfort, and tears were shared. And of course she passes just SO well that she can dress like a man and have a beard and still pass as a woman. Oh and this is/was at her college.
I think she took down the site cause people kept telling her she was full of it.

You have to understand that some CD/TS are REALLY full of themselves.
The problem with the totoal BS stories from CD or TS (well anyone) is the reader may feel inferior or whatever... Peer pressure. Reminds me of those magazines where they interview Joe Blow on the street about something, it will say - "Joe Blow, 21, Investment banker" or maybe Systems analyist.
Like "How did that little shit land some 6 figure job at 21?" BUT - it may not be true or stretched. Joe Blow might be going door to door trying to sell insurance or something.

[Violetgray]

I can see both sides of this.

Though IMHO, the teenager discussing bras thing is relatively plausible compared to some of the other things I've heard. Things like

"I passed so well that day, this guy went to check my crotch and my willie momentarily morphed into a vagina!"

Or,

"I came out to my wife. She said 'AWESOME! I'd already started a fund for your breast implants just in case!' And when I came out to my boss he said, 'I'm usually quite homophobic, but here, have a promotion!'"

Or,

"My tuck fooled the gynecologist!"

Well maybe not that bad.

But on the other hand some of the things that have happened to me sound pretty implausible:

In a full-contact, live action roleplaying game, 130+ burly armored men decided that I was the princess, and so for 2 days I walked around in a corset and long flowing skirt while large men fought over me! (Got the pics to prove this one!)

So, when I see a post, I may say "that's very unlikely" but I rarely ever say "That didn't happen."

[t-girlxsophie]

Am sure there is a certain amount of BS happens on this site,but in my opinion its probably very few and far between,I do know there's many girls who do pass pretty much all of the time (the swines lol),I know I've met a few in my time.

If one of us has had a positive experience that others,may or may not think happened that way,It may put them off from expressing it on here,if they think they will be subject of ridicule

Having said that The people that are lets say "economical" with the truth,will surely as the way of these things,trip themselves up at some point